Renwood Clears up many Myth 4 questions

[PrplPplEater]

Only thing PM seems to have to follow, is to not do certain things that Take 2 told them not to.

And if you could pay attention to the things Iron wrote, you'd have read where one of those things is "Don't try to make a new game".

Even Mnet has NO Agreement with take 2 so WE ALL do myth related things because A. Take2 lets us or B because they dont care at all about myth stuff.

Mariusnet doesn't need an agreement or require the permission of anyone to do anything. Take2 doesn't "allow" Mariusnet to do anything as Take2 has no domain over anything Mariusnet does. Mariusnet is 100% completely custom code from the ground up. Not one thing is code from anything Take2 owns.

To PPE i say this...When we are ready and we pitch it around to game publishers, what should i say "and now ladies and gentlemen ...Blank plugin"
yea sounds like a great idea PPE.

Ummm, after it has come to light that you're only going to be using 1.7... yeah, it is just a plugin. Not saying that it won't sell a few boxes... hell, Chimera helped sell some Total Codex copies, but it is gonna be instant bargain bin fodder. And I don't understand what game publishers you think you'll be able to peddle someone else's intellectual property to.... but you rock on with it.

[Tireces]

A small digression. Ren, DwarfGun looks like Myth version of Brutes Spiker from Halo 3 hahaha pretty cool stuff

[Renwood]

Ugh PPE i wont respond to what you say anymore after this beacuse you dont give me the same courntesy i give you and read what i say...i SAID if a publisher thought the myth pfhor pitched looked good enough they wouldnt mind TRYING TO BUY the franchise rights FROM take 2. in my dealings with all things myth related i have firgured that take 2 would be the LAST company anybody would want to work with on a new myth title.

they just have such a great reputation!

AND 1.7 will rock if content is made to use all its spiffie-assed new features! i dont get it ppe if you think so lowly of myth why do you work with/on it? it would be like me working with the myth 3 engine even though i think its a POS and isnt "mythy".

O and im not saying mnet is based on anything that came before. just that since it runs myth stuff and that T2 owns all things myth related.
they could like try to be total dicks about it... im not saying it would come down them winning but they dont have to win to cost whoever they mess with a bunch of time and money.


I personally have worked with 4 people making Mod type stuff over the years that have gotten jobs in the games industry through their modding.
3 of them rocked at what they did (vodi and fisj to name 2) and 1 was a total no skilled ass.

So sorry if I have a little FAITH that the community (like the ones that have joined our dev team) can make a pitch better then the one Andrew Meggs gave when he pitched "myth3" wich WAS CALLED "myth 3" BTW even though he didnt have the rights yet.

I talked IN depth to 3 of the MJ guys about just what his pitch entailed that he gave to Take 2. you know what it was? it was JUST a 60-80 page design document with no concept art, maps, models, or ANYTHING playble to show to take2's reps. just a bunch of descriptions of the story and what happened on the missions/features to add.

So exscuse me for thinking that the best chance to get take2's or anybody else's (other publishers) attention is to make an allmost completed game thats so cool and has soo many new features and all new storys, that they might think about putting a tiny bit of money into it and releasing it on a few platforms.

Ok rake you got me you do make myth stuff ~8^) at least i looked on the tain first to see if you had posted any maps or plugs before i said that. DOH!

Yea and i was looking for other programmers as consultants to give me a few more ideas of What was possible with the myth 2 engine.
I would then have given those ideas and outlines to the PM guys with a note saying something like "hey we have really looked into this and it should work! could you get this to work?"

Rakey poo When was the first time you went to our site at all? it was open to the public saturday night.

O yea and thanks for calling it "our little plugin" shows your really trying to kiss and make up ~8^O

ok now anything else guys? at least i HAVE tried to fill people in....
dont think we were so lucky when any of the other myth games or big assed plugins were coming out.

And a lot of the stuff people my self included dissagreed with had to do with Video Game semantics wich is about as good as aurging "zombie semantics" WICH I LOVE TO DO! wooo! love them zombies!


And now.... for Something Compeletly Different

Flesh eating zombies:
Health 3.0 - 3.5 Movement Speed 0.029 Attack Types Feral- biting/clawing. Range Min / Max 0.000 - 1.000
Damage Min / Max 0.300 - 0.500



Flesh eating zombies: villagers infected with some terrible plauge
it is unkown where this infection came from or how it started.
Those infected, are Marked by painful buboes, wich ooze puss and
bleed profusely, paradoxically hemorrhaging even as intravascular
coagulation occurs. Symptoms include fever, cough and blood-tinged
sputum. As the disease progresses sputum becomes free flowing and
bright red.

As the plauge spreads, None of the Kingdoms in all the lands are
ready to deal with a Pandemic of this scope. Some Cities and towns
Having lost 50% to 90% of thier population to the disease, will be
completely unable to recover from their losses and desturction caused
to their infastructure and resulting lack of food beacuse of the shattered farming workforces. Great kingdoms, some that have stood
for over 1,000 years will be Destoryed because of this Pandemic.
Some belive that when those infected are too close to death to detect any signs of life, the infected then, due to pure Instinct along with
a biological need to replace their lost blood and fluids, are driven
mad at this point, Plauge victims in this final stage try to aquire
the needed blood and fluid filled tissues From any noninfected
persons in their surroundings through canibalism.

In some cases Even the victims own Familys Are eaten by their infected loved ones.
Medical scholars have speculated that A few ways that the Pandemic is
spread are by: Some Form of tainted water or food, Animals carrying
infected vermin like fleas or lice or some kind of airborn contagion
coughed up by the plauge victims themselves.

But all medical scholars agree on one thing, That the only sure way to
get the disease is to be bitten by one of the infected.
Some have given them the name "zombies" but scholars scoff that this
notion, citing that the undead cant be created without magic. The most learned among these scholars point out that undead victims must ALLREADY BE DEAD for such enchantments to work.

-Excerpt from the Myth Pfhor The Wind Age units stats page

Think the Black death during the medieval period.. where all the millions of bodies laying around also have the nasty habbit of getting up and eating the living. Come on! Castles under siege by giant hordes of countless zombies outside AND WITHIN, dudes in chain mail armour and knights on horseback fighting zombies trying to pull them off thier horses, rip them apart and eat them. Catapults Throwing captured wights whos daggers were taken so they cant suicide being launched into a big blob like formation of undead flesh eaters....you guys cant tell me that wouldnt be a cool video game....or movie ~8^)

Lalala!

o yea and..PEACHES!

o and Tireces i had that concept art of that dorf gun made about a year ago ~8^)

[vinylrake]

Ok rake you got me you do make myth stuff ~8^) at least i looked on the tain first to see if you had posted any maps or plugs before i said that. DOH!

It's not a contest. You made the baseless insinuation that because I don't make things for Myth that I don't really care about the game. I showed that your statement was based on a lie.

Rakey poo When was the first time you went to our site at all? it was open to the public saturday night.

What is your point? You made a big deal about people having access to your project for the past 2+ years, I merely pointed out that your SITE has been up for LESS THAN A WEEK. You might have had betas on udogs or somewhere else continuously for the past two years with accompanying documentation about what "Myth 4" will consist of - which would explain your frustration that people can't just read your mind and know what "myth 4" is, but if so I missed the news - and having your site up for a week and expecting everyone to have memorized everything about your project is silly. and a bit hubristic. I visited your site on Sunday. I looked around. I didn't see much there. I left. I've gotten much more information about your project (though it took an awful lot of badgering) in this forum than I found on your site.

O yea and thanks for calling it "our little plugin" shows your really trying to kiss and make up ~8^O

1. I didn't call it your "little plugin" I called it "your little project". Don't put f-ing quotes around something I said if I didn't say it. You can't even cut and paste and you expect me to think you are going to pull Myth 4 out of your [insert body part here]? I don't think so.

2. You and your little smilies can kiss my ass, Renwood. You want to pretend you are making a new "game" when you are making a plugin/mod for an existing game? Fine, but don't expect me to play along. I will be the first to admit that a conversion, mod/game-extension is a lot of work - especially one of the scope you have described for your project, and I personally have a hard enough time finishing simple things like plugs and net maps to denigrate the effort involved in your project, but drop the hubris and ego and stop pretending that creating a conversion for Myth II is the same thing as creating a new game. Compared to what you originally billed "myth 4" as, yes your project is just a plugin. "Little" I don't know, I haven't downloaded it yet.

And while you have grand plans for your project of which a plugin is merely the first step, if history is any indicator of your likelihood of success, then "myth 4" won't ever really get finished or get beyond the normal plugin phase. People who DO things do them, people who don't TALK about them. Over and over. On forums. For Years. Projects with large staffs that stretch out over several years just don't get done. I could give you a list of vaporware projects or projects that never got out of the beta stage (daimyo, day of the ghol, the great war, etc, etc) but of course your project "myth 4" could be the exception. Honestly as much as I am personally annoyed at this conversation, I'd LOVE for yours to be the one that breaks the rule and actually gets completed, because I love new solo/coop campaigns. BUT until then, and until you drop the attitude I'll call your project whatever I want. Including "your little plugin". Petty? Sure, but you insist on using asinine smileys in disingenuous ways to try to pretend you aren't really insulting people which is lame and dishonest and really bugs me. so, since I mentioned I don't like it, and you continue to apparently deliberately bait me AND use faux friendly spellings of my name (a very petty thing to do I admit even when I do it), if I am feeling particularly petty or am in need of caffeine, I'll probably continue to call your project anything I can that I think of that has a reasonable chance of annoying you. Including "your little plugin". In fact now that i know that it bothers you I may specifically use that (did I mention I can be really petty?) And I will continue to put "Myth 4" in quotes because no matter how many times you say your project IS "myth 4" it isn't.

I think "your little plugin" has a nice ring to it. Either that or "my little pony".

Let's see "Myth 4: Your Little Plugin" or "Myth 4: My Little Pony"? nah. they don't quite work.


Actually I just thought of a great name for your campaign.

"What the hell did we name this Myth, For?"

ps. To anyone working on this new solo campaign for Myth II, please don't take my comments to renwood as disparaging your work on the project or discouraging - that's really not my intent, if you have vision for a huge new Myth Solo campaign, then go for it! Knock my socks off, beat my expectations, make me say "wow" when I fire up your campaign! Seriously make good stuff!

[PrplPplEater]

Ugh PPE i wont respond to what you say anymore after this beacuse you dont give me the same courntesy i give you and read what i say...i SAID if a publisher thought the myth pfhor pitched looked good enough they wouldnt mind TRYING TO BUY the franchise rights FROM take 2. in my dealings with all things myth related i have firgured that take 2 would be the LAST company anybody would want to work with on a new myth title.

Yeah, I know what you wrote, but thanks for accusing me of not reading it... I said, and I now reiterate.... I don't see how you get off peddling something you don't own.... under a name you don't own. Yes, I get it that you are going to make your plugin and then peddle it to other companies to try to get them to buy the franchise, or at least foot the bill to acquire the rights to release the plugin as a new game. I'm just saying that it doesn't seem quite right, but hey.. more power to ya I guess.

i dont get it ppe if you think so lowly of myth why do you work with/on it? it would be like me working with the myth 3 engine even though i think its a POS and isnt "mythy".

I don't think lowly of Myth at all... I think it's a great game and I still love the community aspect of this game, there is none like it anywhere in any other game I've ever come across.

But, do I think Sprites suck? Yes, always have, even back in the TFL days (though I did admire that Bungie was able to make them not look so bad, comparatively).

Do I think a game that doesn't even display units and maps in 16-bit color, much less 32-bit, has no chance in hell and no right to be on a store shelf these days? Do I think the use of Sprites is outdated? Do I think the lack of updated DirectX & OpenGL goodies & shinyness dates it and hinders its value as a new venture? Do I think that any reviewer that sees the game would tear it apart based on the lack of graphical quality and any kind word would come solely from it being a decendant of the series?

Yes, I do think all of that. It's 2007, not 1997. Moore's Law has flipped at least 5 times since the release of TFL and there have been a half dozen full generations of GPU's. There is ZERO reason for any new release to have such primitive, blotchy graphics...ESPECIALLY one that I, the consumer, will have to drop $30-$40 on.... and if it's going to be free for download (not likely at all if some company is ponying up so much money), then what the hell are you bothering with trying to get it published for?

Do I find it insanely arrogant, annoying and pompous of you to declare it as "Myth 4" when in reality it IS "just another plugin" until/unless someone that actually HAS the RIGHT to call it Myth 4 calls it that? Yes, I wholeheartedly do feel that way. I also find you using 'pfhor' incredibly annoying as well... not to mention non-sensical as Marathon has nothing at all to do with Myth.

What I do think though is what I've stated here repeatedly... that as a candidate for a new game that you would want a company to drop hundreds of thousands of dollars on, it isn't even close to being a viable candidate in this day and age. I'm really, really sorry if you have been unable to comprehend that point.

O and im not saying mnet is based on anything that came before. just that since it runs myth stuff and that T2 owns all things myth related.
they could like try to be total dicks about it... im not saying it would come down them winning but they dont have to win to cost whoever they mess with a bunch of time and money.

You tried to imply that Mnet's existence is somehow, even slightly, allowed to persit by the graces of T2.... but the reality is they have absolutely no control and are powerless over Mnet. Could they try something? Sure... but no more than anyone can with anything. The absolute MOST they could even hope to accomplish would be a cease & desist on some graphics on the website.... which ain't shit. The site isn't run for profit, not even by donations, and is in fact ran at a loss out of pocket and would be a Major monthly loss if it wasn't for another hobby site of mine covering the expenses. It would never amount to anything... unlike the actual game Myth where they are the first and final word on every bit of that game client, and this would clearly be an attempt at profit off of trademarked and copyrighted material.... and yes, that would extend to even the mere attempt at finding a suitor.

So, will Mariusnet be getting rent money for the connections and bandwidth this company will be using for this new game?



I do hope you complete your project, and I do hope it lives up to the attempted hype. I look forward to checking it out. I can guarantee I won't drop money on it, but I wish you luck in getting some company to adopt Myth.
I just hope the attempt doesn't draw ill attention or ire from the people that REALLY have a voice on the topic.

[Industry]

....how many times have i told you that ALL THE MYTH GAMES ARE BUILT ON THE TFL ENGINE/CODE? ive said that sooo many times and you NEVER EVER RESPOND to that simple fact. you choose to ignore it evrey time.
so by your own logic myth 2 isnt a new game and myth 3 isnt a new game.
half-life (quake 1 engine modded) isnt a new game and half life 2 episode 1 isnt a new game and also half life 2 episode 2 isnt a new game and half life 2 episode 3 wont be a new game if we follow your logic of what a "new game" is.

Halo 3 is the best Pathways to Darkness plugin ever.

Really if you look back at the open source to Marathon, you can see that's it probably all the same source. It wasn't lost on me that Marathon had collection tags, and mons tags, and proj tags. So Renwood, I vote (this is a Mythocracy) that you take the open source Marathon engine and combine it with the OpenGL mesh viewer that someone made and call that whatever you want. Or at least tell Take2 you got the source from Clem.

[carlinho]

hell, what a clash of egos
if all the projects or things everybody was in were at least 10% of the size of all the egos in the community, what fun we would have playing and playing

myth is a game, games are supposed to be fun...

I don't understand where 50 or so people left here can benefit from an endless rant about this or that or what came before if the chicken or the egg

can we just get along, or keep our fights to a private call or pm?

I thought this was a place to talk about myth, not about our big egos

anyways, nothing personal to anybody, I respect you all, just a little frustrated that a tiny community could shrink even more because everybody thinks his pony is taller than the guy next door....

[oogaBooga]

You guys, vinyl, ppe, make me sad for myth. I hoped for support, and all I see is pointless long diatribes of BASHING.

Im not even going to bother correcting your many errors and HUGE misconceptions.

You guys are all negative, so if you arent going to support us in some way at least stop the bashing. Especially you vinyl.

And new engine build - GUESS WHAT THE FUCKING FEATURE IS? Exportablt stained maps.

You flew off the fucking handle over exportable stained colormaps. You need to grow the fuck up vinyl and do research before you open your mouth.

I am saddened by all of you.

[Death's Avatar]

You need to grow the fuck up vinyl and do research before you open your mouth.

Or ren could be more clear?

[Zeph]

By the way, i've done Zombie infecting humans already. You can take a look at my Quarantine map. Humans killed by zombies become zombies themselves. Map will be released before christmas!

[vinylrake]

You guys, vinyl, ppe, make me sad for myth. I hoped for support, and all I see is pointless long diatribes of BASHING.

Then you are missing the points being made.

And new engine build - GUESS WHAT THE FUCKING FEATURE IS? Exportablt stained maps.

You flew off the fucking handle over exportable stained colormaps. You need to grow the fuck up vinyl and do research before you open your mouth.

You know ooga, I tried to get information about what the "Myth IV" project entailed, but all I got was cryptic "descriptions" and seemingly ill-thought out defenses of why Ren thought he could do whatever he wanted with the Myth II source code. And when I did get information from Ren and other project members I had MAJOR issues with it AS IT WAS DESCRIBED BY TEAM MEMBERS. The fact that "Myth IV" is something VERY different from what Ren and other project members describe "Myth IV" to be isn't my fault. If the head of the project and other people working on the project can't accurately describe what the project is, how can you blame me for not understanding what it is? or of not doing "research"?

to recap, here are a few ways the project was described at different points in time by people working on the project: (bold emphasis is mine)

"The final product will not be a 3p plugin that opens up in the Myth2 application. It will be a new game that we've worked extremely hard on and put a lot of ourselves into, which we're giving away for free." -- t o x y n

"As far as I know, the final product was supposed to be a standalone app available for free download, not a set of plugins that is loaded into the existing Myth2 app." -- t o x y n

"...We have a new engine build that is fully backwards compatible that works with myth 2 and has A FEW new features..." -- Renwood

"How about WHAT IF we all come together and work on a project that is so kick ass and nearly completed we can pitch it around to Bungie, take 2, Valve software. and others and show we have a WORKING mostly done version of an all new game!!" -- Renwood

"It WILL NOT be an all new engine." -- Renwood

Gee, I wonder why why I was maybe a bit confused about what exactly the "Myth IV" project is?

It would have been more helpful to the discussion if Renwood would have just answered the initial questions by myself and others when asked instead of continuing to present "myth 4" as an entirely "new game" based on unauthorized modifications of source code to a game he has neither the rights or permission to modify, nor permission to name his 'game' after.

In my opinion, IF Renwood would have identified WHAT "myth 4" was correctly from the beginning - a "very large scale near total Myth II conversion" - 50% of this conversation and resulting "negativity" would never have occurred. If he had addressed the issues raised when challenged on the legality of his stated intent to modify the source code and distribute it and or SELL it as his own new game called "myth 4" instead of cavalierly saying he could do whatever he wanted because Take2 was too busy to notice him and wouldn't sue him because he had no money, another 45% of the conversation/"negativity" never would have happened.

While I admit that my love for Myth II and fears that a rogue development project like the one Renwood was initially describing "Myth 4" as might piss off Take2 and bring an end to any further Myth II development made my responses a little stronger in tone than usual, I believe that the vast bulk of this conversation is the result of misinformation provided by people directly involved in this project to people genuinely interested in the continuation of Myth (myself and others) who care enough about the future of the game to not want to see anyone ruin it for the rest of us.

fwiw, if you have read what I've actually written - despite my annoyance and anger at some of the things Ren has said and his part in this whole conversation, I am really looking forward to seeing "The Wind Age" project being completed, I LOVE grand campaigns in Myth and I'd love to see another one of the size/scope Ren has described. I don't have any interest in the part of your plans to shop this new Myth II conversion to other game publishers - I think it's chances of success are @ 0% and a waste of time and I think it's extremely ill-advised to do so given that the "myth 4" team is aware of the the very specific restrictions Take2 attached to their original release of the Myth II source code and the potential legal issues or cancellation of future Myth development that could result from it, but I would love to see a new Myth II Campaign/Total-Conversion.

[Horus]

Im not even going to bother correcting your many errors and HUGE misconceptions.

Any misconceptions existant were created by Renwood's lack of straight answers to simple questions. Heck it's only recently that I've been able to understand what your even doing.

1. Is your Project an actual new game? = No

2. Is your Project a plugin that works in conjunction with Myth 2 like all other Myth 2 plugins? = Yes

3. Does your Project use your own version of Myth 2 created by your team? = No

4. Does your Project use a build in progress created by Magma (1.7)? = Yes

Simple beyond words that would have been, and it would saved all kinds of trouble. Instead we get rambling quotes about what someone in Take 2 has said, and suggestions of "a new game".


It's you ooga who makes ME sad, letting Renwood do all the talking for your project when he seems incapable of answering simple straight questions.

[Tireces]

Dont be sad ooga. I'll try your Myth 4 with pleasure and proly many (whole Myth community?) other ppl 2. I just dont belive that you will finish this anytime soon guys - just becouse such huge project proly cant be done quickly without legion on hard-working-ppl ( but of course I hope that I'm wrong this time ).

When something like 4 years ago The Fallens Vengeance was announced on pm.net as Myth 4 (based on m2 engine) my first thouht was "WTF? some1 messing with M storyline and calls it Myth 4 - Take2/MJ/Bungie should make another Myth game" but after few seconds it was more like "There will be proly never another Myth game so I guess that mapmakers can call their plug how do they only want".
So who rly cares. TFV will be alway Myth 4 for me and The Wind Age will Myth 5 in my mind : ) BTW Myth II was a sequel, Myth III ( or UMS:) ) was prequel, TFV (4) sequel, TWA (5) prequel : )

I wish ya luck guys : )

P.S. I didnt read 2 many previous posts (or m4 threads) so maybe it was completly offtopic hehehe

cheers

[Dio]

I didn't know TFV was finished and released?
If it wasn't finished and just released..
warz jo git it?

[Horus]

I didn't know TFV was finished and released?
If it wasn't finished and just released..
warz jo git it?

It isn't finished or released, but we are always looking for new beta testers.