Official Deadfall release topic!

[vinylrake]

oh, I wasn't going to mention it, but figured you might want to know on the off chance that someone downloaded the older Deadfall and then started complaining to you that your zombies didn't work or something.

actually, come to think of it, if I hadn't noticed the date on the older deadfall .sit file on my HD while looking for the spot that firefox dl'ed the new one to it probably would have been me confused and complaining.

[Zeph]

I was told by some people that I was being an ass, I agree and would like to apologize.

Here's my new new review

I have to say that I am a little disappointed by Deadfall. The main reason being that I know what it was supposed to be, and this doesn't feel to me like a final release. I don't like writing huge text so I'll opt for a list of good and bads.

goods : The maps are totally awesome. Jon god seriously did a great job at enhancing the ADT maps by strangelet by adding new detail textures, special effects. I'd say of all the maps, only a few of them do not deserve their spot on the plug though. I'll talk about it in the bad section.

The units are very nice looking, I love the new graphics for them(HEHEHE) and like how you can differentiate them by the special effects around the units. I think the balance for coop is very well done, even though some units tend to be able to get more kills than some others. I guess it depends on the kind of map too.

Action is fast, games are quick and it feels overall more like an action or 1st person shooter game. I really hope to see more maps for this and possibly new units ? (hint)

Bad While the coop part is very balanced, I feel the versus and ffa mode are not. I think it's too bad that some features were taken out at the last minute. It really feels like the coop part was made with quality in mind, and the versus part was done super quickly. I still have all my versus balance fix in my myth folder that somehow were left off before the release.

Some maps are just plain bad. The one with a huge bridge sounds like fun, but the bridge looks like crap (strangelet's fault) and the gameplay involved isn't all that great. It could have been left out... Another boring map is the Water Intoxication one on Seven dead lies. We played a game where about 30 zombies stayed immobile and for some reason only a dozain zombies ever got in the pool... instead every zombies were chasing 1 lone survivor. Last bad map is the Oratorio (INFECTED). For some reason we had a working brand new gametype, but it was taken out. Perhaps because we didn't test it enough, I don't know. I'm looking forward to see it in another mappack (hint#2)

bad for some, good for others Some people keep saying they lag like hell. It's probably because of the high res units! Either get a new computer, raise the texture memory in preference or play with detail textures off.

What I'd like to see in a future release The missing units that were left over. The dual weilding chick and the cloaked snipers. I think versus mode could be revisited. I'm not saying to change everything, just modify to make it less of a point-n-click mayhem.

Real coops would totally own. Right now those are not real coops as everyone is still playing against each others. I know there were plans for that and I'd be willing to help.

All in all, 4.25 stars.... 5 stars if what I said is fixed.

I also think Strangelet deserves more credits

[Jon God]

I was told by some people that I was being an ass, I agree and would like to apologize.

Apology accepted.

Here's my new new review

I have to say that I am a little disappointed by Deadfall. The main reason being that I know what it was supposed to be, and this doesn't feel to me like a final release. I don't like writing huge text so I'll opt for a list of good and bads.

goods : The maps are totally awesome. Jon god seriously did a great job at enhancing the ADT maps by strangelet by adding new detail textures, special effects. I'd say of all the maps, only a few of them do not deserve their spot on the plug though. I'll talk about it in the bad section.

I know, I was inspired by looking at ADT. I wanted to see people playing on these maps, and not have them just kinda die out because the quality astounded me. Some of the never quite worked out, but in the end, everytime I brought up removing maps, testers made a point of saying there's no reason to not have content, 'specially if it's already done. Also, some people ended up really liking them.

The units are very nice looking, I love the new graphics for them(HEHEHE) and like how you can differentiate them by the special effects around the units. I think the balance for coop is very well done, even though some units tend to be able to get more kills than some others. I guess it depends on the kind of map too.

Yeah, it got to the point where if I changed anything, the balance would change on every map. The classes themselves are balanced on some maps, and not on others, just due to the terrain.

Action is fast, games are quick and it feels overall more like an action or 1st person shooter game. I really hope to see more maps for this and possibly new units ? (hint)

It ended up feeling very FPS or arcady, which wasn't my original intent, but worked out pretty well. *Insert Credit to continue*

Bad While the coop part is very balanced, I feel the versus and ffa mode are not. I think it's too bad that some features were taken out at the last minute. It really feels like the coop part was made with quality in mind, and the versus part was done super quickly. I still have all my versus balance fix in my myth folder that somehow were left off before the release.

Yeah, I will completely admit to this, I tried to balance Versus more, but until the last 3 days of working on it, no one really wanted to test versus, so a lot of the changes for versus came at the last minute. Another reason was that I didn't want people to have to learn the classes twice, once for Coop once for FFA, otherwise, you could just have two plugins. STILL, I agree they aren't balanced as well as they should be.

Some maps are just plain bad. The one with a huge bridge sounds like fun, but the bridge looks like crap (strangelet's fault) and the gameplay involved isn't all that great. It could have been left out... Another boring map is the Water Intoxication one on Seven dead lies. We played a game where about 30 zombies stayed immobile and for some reason only a dozain zombies ever got in the pool... instead every zombies were chasing 1 lone survivor. Last bad map is the Oratorio (INFECTED). For some reason we had a working brand new gametype, but it was taken out. Perhaps because we didn't test it enough, I don't know. I'm looking forward to see it in another mappack (hint#2)

Aye, the Bridge level could use some work, though the level design for the mesh itself was kinda strange. I think something cool could be made of it, possibly some cool custom gametypes.

The map Oratorio (INFECTED) needs balancing, again, I people wanted to play the coops more in testing. (BTW to all, you need more then 1 player to play this gametype)

You gametype was meant to find it's way in, and the reason it's not there was a mistake on my part, it was going to be there, I lost the note paper, and ended up remembering it, along with a few other things I needed to do about a day later.

bad for some, good for others Some people keep saying they lag like hell. It's probably because of the high res units! Either get a new computer, raise the texture memory in preference or play with detail textures off.

I made a section of the manual giving advice on this problem. But, I suppose not everyone reads the manual. I too lag on some levels, *shrugs*

What I'd like to see in a future release The missing units that were left over. The dual weilding chick and the cloaked snipers. I think versus mode could be revisited. I'm not saying to change everything, just modify to make it less of a point-n-click mayhem.

I would be up for this, I was thinking the second mappack, which I already have planned, would include more units, both classes and zombies, to mix things up. Perhaps you could have the last 2 classes as pickups, randomly dropped by zombies or something, just to make things again, more interesting.

Real coops would totally own. Right now those are not real coops as everyone is still playing against each others. I know there were plans for that and I'd be willing to help.

Aye, I mentioned real coops in the manual, if you would like to take them on, that would be great, I was thinking about it, but I knew they were yours originally, though I think, to maximize replay value, we should include variants on the coop levels (Chooseable classes/fixed classes, ect).

All in all, 4.25 stars.... 5 stars if what I said is fixed.

I also think Strangelet deserves more credits

Strangelet is mentioned on every pregame image, in the manual, on the site, in the description on the tain, and finally, in game on every level, "Welcome to Deadfall, brought to you by Jon God, Zeph and Strangelet."

I dunno what more I can do.

[GodzFire]

I just managed to somehow crash Myth 2 with Deadfall!

Here's the Pastebin Report: http://pastebin.com/f751a9e50

[Myrd]

I just managed to somehow crash Myth 2 with Deadfall!

Here's the Pastebin Report: http://pastebin.com/f751a9e50

That crash looks unrelated to Deadfall and seems to be due to a bug in the Mac networking code.

[Jon God]

I just managed to somehow crash Myth 2 with Deadfall!

Here's the Pastebin Report: http://pastebin.com/f751a9e50

That crash looks unrelated to Deadfall and seems to be due to a bug in the Mac networking code.

Yay, now I don't have to feel responsible.

[Baron LeDant]

If deadfall used lego units...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIxNiAFUCXM&feature=fvhl

[vinylrake]

Hey JonGod,

I wrote a review of Deadfall the other day that included my wishlist for Version 2 of DeadFall but then thought those comments didn't really belong in a review. So I'll post them here - you don't have to reply, just ideas for you to read and forget about. I would LOVE to see a version2 of deadfall withsome of the stuff zeph mentioned and <hint><hint> some of my suggestions - but I am sure I'd download a V2 and love it even if you think my ideas are teh s00k.


-------------

"*What I would like to see in the next version of DeadFall*"


Less Puss: Maybe a LOT less pus but with some of the pus a little more effective/damaging? Being immersed in a monsoon of flying puslike bodyparts gets old fairly quickly. Having less puss but having some of it more damaging would keep the same game dynamic - of forcing a player to keep moving to avoid a slow pussification and eventual death.

More enemy unit variety: Maybe instead of all basic zombies all the time, the harder difficulty levels could have one or more of the Uber Zombies?

A slightly modified gametype: "Infection?" Sometimes, after 15 minutes of intense gameplay working cooperatively and effectively with a good team, when I die I don't really feel like killing my now-former teammates (sometimes I am *quite *happy to). It would be cool to have a variant of infection where respawned player Uber Zombies could choose to be either friend or foe - maybe the same way units are chosen at start of game? When a player unit dies and is respawned it has one opportunity to declare it's 'intentions' then it will keep respawning as that kind of uberzombie. For story rationalization you could always say some zombies retain memories of their former life - it would be at least be semi-consistent with some zombie lore/movies. Ideally 'friendly' Uberzombies would 'pass' for regular zombies so they could block stairs and not become targets of other zombies until they attacked regular zombies - otherwise friendly UberZombies are probably going to be stuck in a crowd of zombies spawning and being killed, spawning and being killed for the remainder of the game. Also Friendly UberZombies and UnfriendlyUberZombies could of course target each other.

Another slight modification I would LOVE to see made to the regular Infection! gametype - would be an Infection! "Leader of the Pack" - so when I respawn as an uberZombie I could use a special attack to gain control over a certain # of regular zombies in my vicinity (like the deceiver spell on solo M2). The attack could have a REALLY slow recharge rate, but I think having a small commando squad of zombies working to cut off the retreat of player units could add an interesting element into the strategy/gameplay. Combine this with the friendly/unfriendly uberZombies so you could have competing packs of friendly and unfriendly zombiepacks and it would really liven up the game. Of course to make this more fair, perhaps when a certain# of zombies have been controlled, the refresh rate on playerunit's weapons could be reduced. Things do get MUCH harder once the # of uberzombies approaches or passes the # of still living player units. Actually, even in regular infection! it might be a nice mod to reduce recharge time once the # of uberzombies is equal to or greater than the #of player units left alive.

[Jon God]

I know I read it probably only minutes after it was posted, and I took it to heart, don't worry I'm not done with DF.

I am still brainstorming on what I want to do next (more mappacks? Updates/bugixes, 2.0?) But don't worry people will know when I have decided fully on something.

[Melekor]

I just managed to somehow crash Myth 2 with Deadfall!

Here's the Pastebin Report: http://pastebin.com/f751a9e50

That crash looks unrelated to Deadfall and seems to be due to a bug in the Mac networking code.

Graydon experienced the same thing again just now. We should be sure to fix this for 1.7.1

[GodzFire]

My review of the plugin:

- Classes need to "level" a bit. That makes it feel like a reward getting top kills.
 
- Classes take too few hits before they die. I suggest increasing their health slightly, or reduce the damage per zombie attack.
 
- Adding a glow effect to the units which help identify them much faster. For example, the medic would glow blue, pyro orange, and striker red.
 
- Essentially, when you're shoulder to shoulder with the zombies, bashing them with the gun is useless. I would raise the damage gun smacking does so you aren't killed by a single zombie who has you cornered and can't fire.
 
- Marine: Primary fire is a little weak, can't even kill a single zombie with dedicated blast.
 
- Striker: Shorten the distance required to fire. If a zombie gets close to you, you can't even attack ground in back of him to blast him.
 
- Krusher: GIVE HIM A SPECIAL ABILITY CONFIRMATION WINDOW! I can't tell you how many times people accidentally lay down dynamite in the middle of the group. I also suggest making the Time Bomb targetable to the zombies, IE, you click the Zombie near you, and the Krusher throws the Time Bomb in it's direction. Increase the throw length slightly.
 
- Medic: If there's only 1 heal unit and he's mana based, he should be able to heal a unit back to 100%. Also, maybe it's personal preference, but I think a healing unit shouldn't be dropping blood everywhere. Maybe give him little +'s or something.
 
- Seeker: No issues, I think he's good
 
- Recon: Same as above.
 
- Pyro & Tekk: I strongly feel that their specials should be switched. The Incendiary Launcher is just too perfect a fit for the Pyro, plus it gives him an attack that's a bit more ranged.
 
- Ubers: TOO FAST! The frustrating part with Ubers is that if there's one idiot playing, and he dies, he can just take out the whole team too easy. Another is when you, as an Uber, are killed, there's really no penalty. You wait a few seconds, and respawn at the same location. If you trapped a human player there and they kill you, they're still essentially trapped. My suggestion would be to add a 'graveyard' to each map, and when you're killed as an Uber, you respawn there. If that was included, the Ubers could keep the same speed.

- Infection (Waves): This was only included on one map, but it's far and away my favorite gametype. It should be adapted to each map for increased playability. Maybe include one Wave mode where you have to last a certain amount of time, while the other is seeing who can kill the most zombies. If it's possible to decrease the time between wave spawns, I'd do that; very slowly reduce the time to kill a wave until the game ends.

- Rescue: I actually like this. Another one that should be adapted for all the maps.

- Versus/Team/FFA: To be honest, I really wouldn't be sad if you just removed these options, as I think the plugin is balanced towards Co-Op action, instead of PvP. I personally don't care to play against other players, since there is definitely a unit balance issue.

- Tagset/Single Levels Co-Op: I would like to see this happen. As it stands, the tagset is really only partially completed. There are not DF units for Heron Guards, Trow, Warlocks, etc.

- Water Supply: A nice idea, but boring and really not having in.

- Zombie Spawning: One thing that drives me nuts is when a new wave of zombies spawn right on top of you. If possible through scripting, why not have a test to see where the play units are, and for a certain distance around them, Zombies won't spawn. Think of it like a 'personal space shield'.

- Zombies In General: Why not slightly mixed it up with the Zombies, create some that are tougher to kill, but are slower; say 200% health. You could increase their size and differentiate their color. Along the same lines, have a few "running" zombies that use the run animation and are fast, but have about 50% health of the normal zombies. An example:

Zombie Runner - 150% Speed - 50% Health
Normal Zombie - 100% Speed - 100% Health
Strong Zombie - 75% Speed - 125% Health
Juggernaut Zombie - 50% Speed - 200% Health

- Final thoughts: I think the plugin has a lot of potential and playability if it's updated correctly.

[Graydon]

I find it amusing that almost all of your comments are geared toward making the plugin _Easier_ Godz.

Maybe you need to play more with some skilled players and learn more skills.... alot of those things you're suggesting to make the player more powerful would totally mess up that nice balance that's currently going on. I've seen many maps survived on legendary. Just gotta know what's what.

Not flaming your review, just observing.

[vinylrake]

yeah shoot - don't make it EASIER, yegods man, even I _alone_ can beat some Infection maps on legendary. (of course only if they are outdoors and have buildings)

[GodzFire]

Who ever said that I thought the game was too hard? Not me. Essentially all the games I play are Legendary, and have beaten more than a few maps.

[Zeph]

future maps will actually be much harder.