tain.totalcodex.net

Not actually sure where that limit comes from and what might be related to it, but I can look into it. Start a new thread for it so it doesn't get lost in this one though please.

Poly= models made from polygons arranged in 3d. That reminds me. 3d units could use LODs(level of detail) so it'd have a low poly model from far away to save on engine performance and a higher polygon model when zoomed in for detail. Being zoomed in you wouldn't need to display as many so engine performance is still good.

Forgot all about mip mapping, which is roughly the 2d equivalent.

It'd be nice if they made shadows just by taking the unit sprite, making it dark grey, and skewing it to fit the direction and position of the sun. It could also diffuse the shadow according to the sun intensity. Sun stats could be set in the mesh tag.

Having aura's under units as underlays and overlays would be sweet too.

Ok time to stop dreaming.

punkUser wrote:Not actually sure where that limit comes from and what might be related to it, but I can look into it. Start a new thread for it so it doesn't get lost in this one though please.

The actual limit on views-per-frame is actually very high, its just that bungie chose 8 views by default for most of their units. Quite a few third-party units have many more view angles.

I think you misunderstood what they were talking about, Iron. The limit they are referring to is of the maximum allowed units selected at any one given point, not of views in a frame.

Graydon wrote:New renders of the original Myth units at a higher resolution size is the start of the magic. The real magic gets going though, when the new system allocates mip-maps to the high res sprites, so that they uniformly "scale" up and down in resolution as you zoom in or out. The current issue you see with the 'sparkly' high res units is that it's got too many pixels to display at that given zoom and so it mashes them together making it look sharp and grainy. The new system will replace the super large sprite with a smaller version of itself at a far zoom, and then improve as you zoom in and get closer to the subject. It's pretty fantastic to watch actually, as a group of units walks from the far side of your screen towards you, they actually 'come into focus'. 1.8 for the win!

Having fun with bungie's mess, gray? lol

Pyro wrote:I think you misunderstood what they were talking about, Iron. The limit they are referring to is of the maximum allowed units selected at any one given point, not of views in a frame.

Right you are Pyro - that'll teach me to skim-read the thread

The number of units selected can be adjusted in the code - I remember in 1.3 it was 30, and we increased it to the current limit for 1.4. Whether it can be increased depends on the size of the variable used to hold the selection count. If its a single byte, with 1 bit used for something else, then it probably can't go higher, but its been many years since I've looked at that code.

Yeah obviously if the current limit is somewhere around 128 it's probably related to a data type, but it may well be a type that is only used on the client and never synchronized, and thus one that can be easily changed. Will need to go take a look at it.

oogaBooga wrote:Having fun with bungie's mess, gray? lol

Cha bra

Speaking of high-res units, it's better to have low-res units that you can distinguish at a glance rather than high-res units that look really similar. When Valve made Team Fortress, for instance, lots of attention was paid to how the different shapes and colors on the player types would make them easily recognizeable at a distance. Bungie did a pretty good job of this with the original units as well. Playability trumps photographic accuracy.

Except, since we're not re-making anything here, the unique characteristics of the myth units are only more pronounced. In fact, the units were modeled in such a way that certain features are exaggerated so that you can distinguish them at such small sizes. Bigger sizes just makes those things more pronounced (dwarf nose/beard, zerk paint, etc). And the way the new system works with mip-mapping, if you're viewing units at a distance (say the far reaches at the top of your screen) those renders will be rendering at approximately the size bungie units always have been. The details get sharper and more refined as that unit comes closer to your viewpoint. If you have an army walk from off screen towards your camera and stop in front of you, one can actually watch them " come into focus "... it's a pretty neat effect really.

I absolutely hear your concern, and understand through other games, how it'd be a problem, but I can confidently say "Don't knock it 'til you try it!' cause I don't think the concerns have much foundation with this HighRes project.

Graydon wrote:I absolutely hear your concern, and understand through other games, how it'd be a problem, but I can confidently say "Don't knock it 'til you try it!' cause I don't think the concerns have much foundation with this HighRes project.

Didn't mean they shouldn't be high-res, just a plea(just in case) that the clear visual difference between them not be forgotten as it has been, for example, in many FPS games that are so photorealistic that the gameplay cues are lost.

Aye, indeed I follow you. And I can assure you that even if we had m4D sk1llz with Alias (the app used for the models) we'd be incredibly hard pressed to make them photorealistic. It is a fantasy game after all

Mostly you'll see the same units you always have, and in many cases now, you'll actually see details, instead of just having your brain interpret them as details based off the detailed concept art. It's nice, to say the least!

What program did they use to model the Bungie units?

Graydon wrote:... that even if we had m4D sk1llz with Alias (the app used for the models)...

Lol

Heh, doh. I haven't done any 3d modeling in awhile, but I can almost guarantee I could make the myth units look a lot better. Just updating the textures for the models would be a big improvement.