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My idea was to have the undead versions of the living units show up later in-game, as opposed to seeing them converted on-screen. I am really doing these models as replacement for the single player story.

I have heard some statements already about them not being the best choice for online games due to computers getting out of step from processing the images so i didnt really envision their main purpose as being multi-player. So, yes, it doesnt make sense to see a beserk fall dead and then stand up in thrall armor with an axe, but your units being resurected against you never happens in M1 or 2.

In the manual it says somethign to the effect that axes are the only thing that the thrall are able to use with any degree of success becuase they have lost their dexterity.

The up-armoring of Archers and the like i had in mind since it is apparently what they do to all thrall in the first place. Herons and warriors have somewhat better armor to start, so i think that would stay in place.

Also, Fir-Bolg will look different than archers because i will be texturing them differently and elements of their previous look will remain, or be destroyed to set them apart. It is really an attempt to add variation to the Thrall to the point where you can look at them and say, "Aw shit! That's David Bow-ie! (I commonly name one of my archers David Bow-ie)" Maybe even set it up so that the game checks stats from previous missions and replaces one standard thrall with the type of unit you lost in previous mission. That kind of thing would be fun and add flavor. The arrow quiver might still be attached to a bow-man, while different parts are torn away.

I could add a third pass with the undead unit's using the weapons they started with for use in multi-player, or for other map-makers who want to have units converted on screen. That wouldnt be too difficult.

Fortified Hooligan wrote:I have heard some statements already about them not being the best choice for online games due to computers getting out of step from processing the images so i didnt really envision their main purpose as being multi-player.

Well, what they meant is that, if you are going to make these units as high res as it sounds like you will be doing, there will be people that will not be able to run such a plug. So it isn't that people won't be able to play it for multiplayer, its that those people won't be able to play it in single player either.

Fortified Hooligan wrote:I could add a third pass with the undead unit's using the weapons they started with for use in multi-player, or for other map-makers who want to have units converted on screen. That wouldnt be too difficult.

That would be great!

As far as story purposes goes, I want to think that Berserks are off-limits for thrall-making. Something tells me that they would resist the lure of dark magics, even in death, and it says something about their tenacity and loyalty in terms of character. now the heron guard--I think this is most interesting and I would give a tentative green light as we know they have already demonstrated self-esteem issues with the whole journeyman transformation. For them to turn into thrall would be a shocking blow to their collective morale, and, I think, it befits their introspective and complex nature. Makes 'em more human. And it also potentially makes the campaign more desperate.

But Berserk thrall? Ridiculous. Those bare-chested folk are too hardy to fall for that, and they know it.

As far as alternate death sequences go for the giants -- I think that sounds very appealing. Perhaps include the original death sequences as well, but to have the option could prove most useful. perhaps as a soft death/hard death bifurcation.

£N wrote:But Berserk thrall? Ridiculous. Those bare-chested folk are too hardy to fall for that, and they know it.

What? So the Heron Guard who are loyal to the death would be turned to Thrall but Berserks somehow are too stubborn not to turn to Thrall? That's just crazy talk. Thrall are just reanimated corpses, not brought back from the dead. Their brains are not the same as when they were living. They use basic brain functions for moving and stuff. Look, even long dead magic users can be made into Shades, why can't the stubborn fighters?

Agreed Pyro.

Maybe you were going off of my statement about the Trow resisting beign turned into Thrall. I am not talking about the dead trow fighting his masters, im talking about all the other Trow the first time they run across a Trow Thrall losing their shit and rebelling against the caster.

Here's a tickler;
make living Thrall.

Who's to say that the rounded armour plating and great axe are not the weapons of choice for an army that's long since faded away?

I donno, I've always liked the idea of Thrall consisting of mostly reanimated peasants- the fact that a free city falling meant hundreds of bodies brought back from crypts and graveyards. Plus, the peasants were always getting shafted by the Myth world- it was great!

The prospect of other flavors of thrall is exciting- but I always thought the bulky shoulder pads and axe made for believable zombie equipment. A thrall would be too clumsy to wield the heron katanas effectively and would prefer a simple chopping weapon.

I also liked that the thralls were used for manual labor in some cases, and their axes could double for digging/chopping.

In any case, keep up this good work! More zombies, more fun.

But where do they get axes and thrall shoulder pads/other armor in such numbers?

haha,

well, the watcher has been pumping out Thrall since he first discovered the drem of un-life. he's probably been having that equipment made for over a thousand years.

There are probably whole land-fills over flowing with pauldrens and axes!

Pyro wrote:

£N wrote:But Berserk thrall? Ridiculous. Those bare-chested folk are too hardy to fall for that, and they know it.

What? So the Heron Guard who are loyal to the death would be turned to Thrall but Berserks somehow are too stubborn not to turn to Thrall? That's just crazy talk. Thrall are just reanimated corpses, not brought back from the dead. Their brains are not the same as when they were living. They use basic brain functions for moving and stuff. Look, even long dead magic users can be made into Shades, why can't the stubborn fighters?

Well the dead magic users isn't much of an argument, because they are, at heart, more sensitive/susceptible to spells, particularly when they are robbed of their defenses. That's in effect what being a magic user is all about.

I like to think that the berserks, like dwarves, are somehow immune to reanimation. Perhaps they are, like dwarves, or elves, a class or sub-type of human being with some minor, but significant structural changes, in the brain or CNS or otherwise. Perhaps they have evolved to be more resistant to these types of shenanigans. I don't know, but it feels right that they be exempt from thrall status. Yes the heron guard are super loyal, Pyro, but my point is that, as paragons of the human genome, for them to be vulnerable to reanimation would present itself as a dire and desperate situation in the struggle for the survival of human civilization (in which we presumably find ourselves--if we subscribe to the LOTR doctrine). Even if berserks were not.

Of course you may argue that it is perfectly natural for berserks to be turned into thrall. My objection is essentially one of aesthetics-- it is hard for me to picture thrall with scraggly beards is all.

£N wrote:My objection is essentially one of aesthetics-- it is hard for me to picture thrall with scraggly beards is all.

That's it! Dwarves and Berserks can't be made undead because they have beards! It explains everything!

Yes! it certainly does!

Beards = anti-magics (except if you're Gandalf)

Or Bahl'al...
Under that helmet, he does have a beard you know!

obviously, dead berzerkers who get raised from the dead come back as ghasts. (as evidence note that zerks and ghasts are the only two units who don't wear shirts (other than SB of course).

That's it! Dwarves and Berserks can't be made undead because they have beards! It explains everything!

Dont forget CHUCK NORRIS too.