tain.totalcodex.net

Posted: **Wed Sep 22, 2004 1:03 pm**

Hi All,

Ok, I've got a map with 5 meshes on it, all using the same colormap, etc.

The water on this map is "tricky", so I've gone through one mesh triangle-by-triangle and meticulously touched up the water levels and the terrain map for the water (why these are separate makes no sense to me whatsoever, but that's another story).

Now, I export this mesh's displacement map as well as the water depth level map and when I then import them (even to the same mesh where I *just* exported them), they adjust subtly and in ways that I do not want (basically they're foobarred). This is also true with the terrain map (either before or after the displacement map - I've tried every order of map export/import). In fact, when I import the terrain map into another mesh it does absolutely nothing!

What the @#%& is going on here? This is driving me NUTS!!

I've tried every combination I can imagine for exporting/importing and it seems to do the exact same thing.

Is there some weird unwritten procedure for other settings that I need to do in a certain order with this? Like "unprotect submeshes" (even though this is only shown under shadow maps)? Or setting the +/- levels for the mesh? Sacrificing some chickens?

I'm starting to wonder something else: the mesh that I touched up and then exported was not the *very first* mesh for that color map - in other words it isn't the #1 mesh I made on that map. I'm starting to wonder if it isn't *that* mesh that I need to adjust and export in order for this to work. I'm wondering if it isn't somehow basing everything on this "first" mesh - this could be nonsense, but then that's what I'm wrestling with here! :;):

Any experiences out there that can shed some light on this?

It's MADDENING to me that I can't simple export a displacement map and a water level map and then import it and have it WORK. I mean, the maps show *precisely* what I want in every dang triangle, I just want loathing to DO IT!

Also (as mentioned) I notice that if I export the terrain map from the touched up mesh and then import it into another of the meshes it does absolutely nothing - is this normal?

HELP!!!

(Ideas/theories are definitely welcome but what I'm really looking for is someone who has experienced something like this and knows what to do - thanks!)

Posted: **Wed Sep 22, 2004 3:41 pm**

As you figured out, importing and exporting various maps is a tricky and delicate matter. But there is one simple sollution to all your woes, assuming all you're doing is creating variants of the same map (i.e. same map, just different unit sets, etc.):

Get one mesh in a perfect state. Then go into Fear/Meshes and duplicate that mesh tag -- append the mesh tag name with something like "(dark)" or whatever so you can keep track of your different meshes. Create a new string list for this mesh while you're at it.

Now you can just open that new duplicated mesh in Loathing and change anything you want (units, map actions, etc.).

Repeat this process as many times as needed to get all your varients created.

Posted: **Wed Sep 22, 2004 3:59 pm**

Agreed, this is definitely the best approach - however...

The map already contains 10 separate meshes (5 light and 5 dark) that have unique properties to each. The thing is, I did the procedure above once before, but *somehow* the water got tweaked.

For some unknown reason, the terrain map decided to make triangles dwarf-depth when they should be human-, human-depth when they should be giant-, and giant-depth when they should be deep.

I don't have the slightest clue why Loathing can't just automatically set these based on the displacement such that the depth of the triangle is set to be whatever the *deepest* part of the triangle should be. If the triangle gets to the point of being giant-depth, then the terrain should automatically set it to giant-depth, etc.

Instead I have triangles that are letting units go underwater. Sigh.

I will try messing with the water level map to see if this can be solved using that. I've got a higher range for the overall displacement map (-3 to +12), but the water level map shows the proper value for "dwarf-depth water" (in other words it is offset properly). This is why I don't know if there is something in the order of things that tweaked this overall displacement range for a given mesh. I will try "reseting" it by setting/unsetting on the meshes and see what happens.

It's just maddening!

I think part of it is because Loathing doesn't seem to save the overall displacement range (-3 to +12 in my case) in the map - if you load another map you'll still have that range set. I will play around with it and see what's up. It could be that what I thought was -3 to +12 may actually be -3 to +10 or something (because it was never saved in the map) and that is what's doing it. I'll test that theory tonight (hopefully).

(Before you ask: I didn't use -3 to +3 because I have "walls" around the edge of the map on purpose, and everything works great other than this silly water problem)

Thanks for your help!

Posted: **Thu Sep 23, 2004 8:31 am**

A lot of mapmakers use a big displacement range for their maps. I generally go all the way to -7 and up to 10 or 12.

What else can I say? Loathing sucks in many ways. I can't offer any explanations that probably don't know already. Best I can do is encourage to stick with it and wish you good luck

Posted: **Thu Sep 23, 2004 3:34 pm**

Thanks mauglir!

Actually it helps quite a bit to know that changing that displacement range isn't some unwritten no-no - whew!

I'm going to try attacking the "first" mesh in the plugin and see if it isn't the one that's overwriting things somehow - who knows...

I'll let you know if I glean any amazing insights. :;):

Posted: **Fri Sep 24, 2004 2:15 pm**

I cant exactly relate to your problems with the displacement and media height maps.. but I CAN relate to a similar problem with terrain maps. Whenever I export a terrain map and then immediately import it again, the terrain is allways fubar.. all jaggy and messed up.. However, if I take that map into photoshop first (the exported one) then copy all, and paste into a new blank grayscale document and save that... and import _THAT_ as the new importable map.. it works liek it should. Try giving that a shot with your displacement and media height maps... maybe the exporter is slighting f00king up the greys and thereby screwing the map up. Other'n that... I'd do what maug suggested and just re-dupe your meshes... sure it means another 15 bazillion hours placing those units again, and again, and again... (repeat) in perfect order, and exactly equal distances from the flags etc.. but then you have to think.. what's more important... perfectly tweaked water, or spending all that time again? Perhaps you can hand tweak the water individualy on each map if you still have no luck with your map imports.

As for ranges, I stick to -10 and +10... usually fits most greys in.. I had to up my +10 to +12 the other day for one map (was lowering the entire map) .. just make sure you dont change the height settings before importing an exported map that uses those specific settings... for example.. if you export at -3, +3.. then import that same map into settings of -4,+4.. things will REALLY get messed up.. perhaps this is a possibility of the displacement probs with yours... perhaps it's changing in decimal fractions somehow.. and thereby messing up the map.. any how.. good luck

Posted: **Fri Sep 24, 2004 3:27 pm**

Hey Graydon!

I'll definitely try your suggestions, especially saving a new map via Photoshop. Also I've tried to be meticulous with having the same displacement range when exporting and importing but will triple-check my results. And I will try other ranges, since it seems like this might be the problem (maybe it's rounding somewhere and needs more of a range).

I hear ya on the tradeoff between a zillion hours and having the map the way I want it - totally! It wouldn't be so bad if I hadn't already done this same process two times before... I was seriously getting carpal tunnel stuff after right-clicking all those frickin' little triagles 10,000 times! ;D

I've also seriously debated attempting to hax0r the dang displacement and terrain maps into the other meshes just to see if it can be done! Of course I have a zillion backups of all this stuff, but I am seriously tempted to try this if it doesn't work the other way - I'm just SO tempted to force feed the dang thing...

Thanks for your feedback! Good stuff!

Posted: **Wed Sep 29, 2004 3:43 am**

i guess the problem was that the range was not set properly.

but the real problem is with how maps are exported/imported, the 255 levels of gray cause rounding errors.

i made a map with 16 meshes, i waited untill the last moment to duplicate the mesh.

i really would like to be able to import/export stuff between maps
displacement/color/terrain maps (without rounding error)
position of units/scenery/objects

i also would like to duplicate objects, and change their team.

a distinctive color for simple/timid/normal units would be great (not just for heroic/legendary)

etc

tain.totalcodex.net

Friggin' Displacement Map Export/Import - Help!! It's not working at all...