I so appreciate what you guys have done with Myth and Myth2, we still play them in our LAN parties along with current game titles of course. But there's something about Myth that we just can't stop throwing into our LAN party mix. It's like the fries with your cheesburger and shake, or hotdogs and coke etc.
Anyways, was just wondering if any of the talented people out there ever thought of using a current 3D engine, for instance the Company of Heroes engine, to make a Myth 2 Mod from? CoD is another great game we love to play and the terrain change during battles reminds us a lot of Myth. We thought Myth would look great on this engine and so we started searching to see if anyone out there's endeavored to try it. A few of the guys are starting to have problems with the pixeled warriors (but most of us don't have any problems with it, has a nice nostalgic feel to it). Anyways we just thought it would make a great Mod for CoD and I think there would be a lot of past Myth 2 fans that would welcome it. If any of us had the know how we'd be all over it trying to make it ourselves.
In either case thanks for such great support for the game, we're greatefull you guys have kept it going for these long years after.
David
Using other Engines for Myth
Re: Using other Engines for Myth
I've heard good things about Company of Heros, haven't played it myself, as I don't own a PC, and my Mac is very old. I would, however, support a mod of it to be like Myth.
I know people were talking about the idea of a Star Craft II mod to mimic Myth.
Thing is, Myth is really deep on the technical, and gameplay side, it's difficult to replicate it, something that helps this is that there are no games that are 'homages' or 'rip offs' of Myth, so a lot of what Myth does would not fit as well in other engines. Not to say it's not worth trying.
I know people were talking about the idea of a Star Craft II mod to mimic Myth.
Thing is, Myth is really deep on the technical, and gameplay side, it's difficult to replicate it, something that helps this is that there are no games that are 'homages' or 'rip offs' of Myth, so a lot of what Myth does would not fit as well in other engines. Not to say it's not worth trying.
PSN: Jon_God
XBL: J0N GOD
Re: Using other Engines for Myth
Thanks for the reply.
Yes CoD is a great game, however I can speak for most of my LAN buddies (15 in all), no RTS has EVER come close to the tactic chess like gameplay that Myth brought to gaming. (We've played quite a few RTS titles and many of them are great games in their own right). It really is a shame and actually very surprising that no other developer has ever thought to continue this type of RTS concept. CoD is probably the closest since you have a minimal choice of units to use and very few "upgrade" features designed into the game. It also makes use of the terrain for strategy. Nevertheless it still lacks the tactical sensibilities that Myth took full advantage of.
Of course you still have unit building features so battles can be won if you just happen to build two extra tanks that can roll over the enemy soldiers that previously did a fine job removing your men from their position, and now their toast because you were fortunate enough to roll in your recently made armor.
The StarCraft 2 engine might work just as well. I guess we're just looking for the same game with a major facelift. Myth3 was close but if you view a youtube video of CoD you can see why Myth would work so well within that CoD engine. Very dynamic explosions and terrain features something even the Myth3 engine lacked, I thought.
I hear of people all the time around game forums that speak fondly of Myth1,2 and how much they enjoyed it so much. I know there'd be a large interested audience if anyone ever decided to bring the Myth worlds into the 21st Century.
Until such a time, we're still happy to be clanging at each other over pizza and coke on this classic.
Yes CoD is a great game, however I can speak for most of my LAN buddies (15 in all), no RTS has EVER come close to the tactic chess like gameplay that Myth brought to gaming. (We've played quite a few RTS titles and many of them are great games in their own right). It really is a shame and actually very surprising that no other developer has ever thought to continue this type of RTS concept. CoD is probably the closest since you have a minimal choice of units to use and very few "upgrade" features designed into the game. It also makes use of the terrain for strategy. Nevertheless it still lacks the tactical sensibilities that Myth took full advantage of.
Of course you still have unit building features so battles can be won if you just happen to build two extra tanks that can roll over the enemy soldiers that previously did a fine job removing your men from their position, and now their toast because you were fortunate enough to roll in your recently made armor.
The StarCraft 2 engine might work just as well. I guess we're just looking for the same game with a major facelift. Myth3 was close but if you view a youtube video of CoD you can see why Myth would work so well within that CoD engine. Very dynamic explosions and terrain features something even the Myth3 engine lacked, I thought.
I hear of people all the time around game forums that speak fondly of Myth1,2 and how much they enjoyed it so much. I know there'd be a large interested audience if anyone ever decided to bring the Myth worlds into the 21st Century.
Until such a time, we're still happy to be clanging at each other over pizza and coke on this classic.
Re: Using other Engines for Myth
Out of curiosity, what are you main gripes with the Myth II engine? Just the low-res sprites?
Re: Using other Engines for Myth
No 3D units?Myrd wrote:Out of curiosity, what are you main gripes with the Myth II engine? Just the low-res sprites?
PSN: Jon_God
XBL: J0N GOD
Re: Using other Engines for Myth
Personaly I have no real gripes with the Myth 2 engine (it works fine for most of us just the way it is) however, like in most anything when you get new and improved (add whatever here, tv, radio, etc.), you'd like to have the same experience, maybe even a more engaging or immersive one, within the improved context. I don't know if that should be too surprising. I don't mind watching movies on an analog tv but on HD the experience of the same movie is enhanced. VHS tapes were great but DVD's gave a more immersed experience and even more so now with Blue Rays. Myth 2 is a great game and a great concept, how much greater could it be in a more immersive environment that can be provided on a more current engine? It's really not that unreasonable. Bungie doesn't use Forge (the engine used to make another great classic game Marathon 1,2 and 3) to make Halo. It's just a natural expectation as the technology continues to progress. I'm frankly surprised that, as great as Myth 1 and 2 are, no modders ever tried to make the transition into more current engines.
As I've said though, most of us don't have a problem playing the game as is but we all agree that the experience would probably be that much more enhanced and immersive were a more current engine used.
As I've said though, most of us don't have a problem playing the game as is but we all agree that the experience would probably be that much more enhanced and immersive were a more current engine used.
Re: Using other Engines for Myth
Well yeah 3D units would probably look more aesthetically appealing but it's not just that. If you look at CoD for instance, the environments are really quite amazing but it's not just that either. The engine is designed so that buildings, trees even terrain (the ground) can be either destroyed or altered. If enough explosives keep damaging the ground, for instance, the ground can be altered enough to cause tanks to have a more difficult time getting through the area than it had been able to before. Infact, because of this added feature to the engine, not only is every game played differently on the same map but the same map can also cause the game to be played differently depending on what was destroyed or damaged within the terrain. So that adds another intangible that can cause the game to be that much more immersive.Jon God wrote:No 3D units?Myrd wrote:Out of curiosity, what are you main gripes with the Myth II engine? Just the low-res sprites?
It's for that reason, compared to other RTS engines we've played on before like Supreme Commander, Dawn of War, Lord of the Rings and a few others, that we thought the CoD engine lends itself very well with the concept behind Myth.
Re: Using other Engines for Myth
Im new to this forum, but I just happened to notice this post and thought I share somethings. I have a very deep interest in doing myth for the starcraft 2, which I have been working on intermediately. I am currently in the sc2 beta so i've gotten a head start.
Although sc2 is still the beta phase, the editor and publishing system blizzard has developed and previewed so far is extremely powerful and has immense potential.
Unfortunately the one major tool an .m3 exporter for blizz's new model format might not be released. Luckily one is being built by the budding sc2 modding community, which should fill that hole.
Anyways here is what i've done so far in the past few weeks. Since I'm working by myself I have to cut corners where ever possible. So as a base for the zerker model I used the human model from WoW, as well as for the footman.
Although sc2 is still the beta phase, the editor and publishing system blizzard has developed and previewed so far is extremely powerful and has immense potential.
Unfortunately the one major tool an .m3 exporter for blizz's new model format might not be released. Luckily one is being built by the budding sc2 modding community, which should fill that hole.
Anyways here is what i've done so far in the past few weeks. Since I'm working by myself I have to cut corners where ever possible. So as a base for the zerker model I used the human model from WoW, as well as for the footman.
- trow2.jpg (5.9 KiB) Viewed 3026 times
- myrkridia2.jpg (15.22 KiB) Viewed 3027 times
- berserker.jpg (6.78 KiB) Viewed 3027 times
Re: Using other Engines for Myth
.m3 for myth3, thats a sign
Re: Using other Engines for Myth
Teagls, they look great! Quite inspiring! I wish I could do 3D modeling or map making.
Just looking at the early examples that you've shown already, you can see the great potential for a more modern look to Myth. The units look like they're supposed to look but already you get a more immersive feel from their more realistic design. Maybe you can get a team together
The one thing I would make a suggestion to whoever thinks of actually doing a Myth mod for whatever engine SC2 or other, is to suggest that they somehow keep the same voice overs from the Myth 1 and 2 series. I'm sorry, but the dwarfs voice overs never get old, most of us would really miss hearing them.
Just looking at the early examples that you've shown already, you can see the great potential for a more modern look to Myth. The units look like they're supposed to look but already you get a more immersive feel from their more realistic design. Maybe you can get a team together
The one thing I would make a suggestion to whoever thinks of actually doing a Myth mod for whatever engine SC2 or other, is to suggest that they somehow keep the same voice overs from the Myth 1 and 2 series. I'm sorry, but the dwarfs voice overs never get old, most of us would really miss hearing them.
Re: Using other Engines for Myth
Myth in SC2 could be cool. I messed around a bit with getting Myth's colormaps into SC2, but had some trouble with it. Since everything is tileset based I basically made one tile the entire color map with a really small SC2 map. I have not yet figured out a way to import or export height maps from SC2.
People have been working on making "high resolution" sprites for Myth. You've probably heard of the Myth 4 The Wind Age project? Here's a screenshot showing high res sprites: HD Myth 63.
It's entirely possible to make more detailed, less pixely units for Myth. I personally am fine sticking with the Myth Engine. The idea of dynamic terrain and fully destructible structures is cool, but I can live without it. One thing I've hoped would be implemented though was to individually control and script the visibility of scenery, projectiles, and objects much like you can control the visibility of monsters via monster identifiers. Right now you can control projectile and object visibility, but only as a "everything or nothing" approach or with a lot of duplicated types.
If a person could control individual scenery objects with scenery identifiers and had the same amount of control they have over monster identifiers it would open up a whole new world of dynamic maps.
I'd rather see these little things added to Myth than go to another game's engine. It's like stepping from Quake 3 to Half Life's engines. It's an entirely different "feel" because your camera pans with a different smoothness and things like responsiveness are slightly different. Some of that can be controlled by modifications, but it'd be very difficult to simulate the feel of Myth.
There's also a little issue with bringing the Myth IP (the voice overs, sounds, etc) into another game. Company of Heroes might be okay since it's a bit of an older game. Starcraft 2 on the other hand is going to feature map publishing and is bound to being played over battle.net. You never know, Take 2 might finally take notice that someone is jacking with their property and shut it down. Not that I'm saying to not even work on the project, just something to consider since it would most definitely be considered against the law in the USA at least. By improving and adding these capabilities to Myth instead, no laws are broken.
People have been working on making "high resolution" sprites for Myth. You've probably heard of the Myth 4 The Wind Age project? Here's a screenshot showing high res sprites: HD Myth 63.
It's entirely possible to make more detailed, less pixely units for Myth. I personally am fine sticking with the Myth Engine. The idea of dynamic terrain and fully destructible structures is cool, but I can live without it. One thing I've hoped would be implemented though was to individually control and script the visibility of scenery, projectiles, and objects much like you can control the visibility of monsters via monster identifiers. Right now you can control projectile and object visibility, but only as a "everything or nothing" approach or with a lot of duplicated types.
If a person could control individual scenery objects with scenery identifiers and had the same amount of control they have over monster identifiers it would open up a whole new world of dynamic maps.
I'd rather see these little things added to Myth than go to another game's engine. It's like stepping from Quake 3 to Half Life's engines. It's an entirely different "feel" because your camera pans with a different smoothness and things like responsiveness are slightly different. Some of that can be controlled by modifications, but it'd be very difficult to simulate the feel of Myth.
There's also a little issue with bringing the Myth IP (the voice overs, sounds, etc) into another game. Company of Heroes might be okay since it's a bit of an older game. Starcraft 2 on the other hand is going to feature map publishing and is bound to being played over battle.net. You never know, Take 2 might finally take notice that someone is jacking with their property and shut it down. Not that I'm saying to not even work on the project, just something to consider since it would most definitely be considered against the law in the USA at least. By improving and adding these capabilities to Myth instead, no laws are broken.
Re: Using other Engines for Myth
David, thanks for your comments. The sound files can be extracted from the tags and could be used. Sound can really bring a unit to life, and having the myth 2 sounds would definitely add to that feel. Although, like Isolder pointed out there are some legal ramifications to doing that.
Unfortunately, replicating myth 2 is a huge feat, but my goal for now is to create some likeness to it. The sc2 engine uses the havok physics engine most of which is modifiable in the editor. There was some video of a battlecruiser being blow apart and rolling down a hill, but the two I found show examples of the physics engine.
The first one is projectiles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-g07jrJeOc
Second is units.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xYS0xTUg3A
The project you showed looks really good, and I plan on playing it. But, one reason I chose using the sc2 engine was the dark and gritty feel. Combined with good lighting and shadows can provide a very good immersion, which I think would go well with Myth.
Here is an example.
Unfortunately, replicating myth 2 is a huge feat, but my goal for now is to create some likeness to it. The sc2 engine uses the havok physics engine most of which is modifiable in the editor. There was some video of a battlecruiser being blow apart and rolling down a hill, but the two I found show examples of the physics engine.
The first one is projectiles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-g07jrJeOc
Second is units.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xYS0xTUg3A
The project you showed looks really good, and I plan on playing it. But, one reason I chose using the sc2 engine was the dark and gritty feel. Combined with good lighting and shadows can provide a very good immersion, which I think would go well with Myth.
Here is an example.
Re: Using other Engines for Myth
The cleanest way to have M2 sounds (or other intellectual property) playable in some non-Myth created-from-scratch swords and spells tactical game ruynning on another game-engine would be to remake anything copyrighted by Bungie/Take2 from scratch so you could play the ported game with _different_ (non-bungie) sounds, voices, models, etc. THEN if there were a seperately available plugin or add-on, mod/etc that contained the content you want to 'borrow', that seperate mod could be added on by the player.teagls wrote:David, thanks for your comments. The sound files can be extracted from the tags and could be used. Sound can really bring a unit to life, and having the myth 2 sounds would definitely add to that feel. Although, like Isolder pointed out there are some legal ramifications to doing that.
Hypothetically if one were to seriously undertake this project, one would just want to keep the two things _completely_ seperate to insulate oneself from lawsuits and the like. e.g. If YOU create the myth 2 mod, you can't have your name in any way associated with any mod that re-uses bungie content, you can't host the bungie-content-mod on the same site as the M2 recreation, etc. It's a little grey, but using this kind of seperation is how the retrogaming community has managed to continue making software emulators for old proprietary videogame systems. They make the software emulators but they don't offer digital copies of the copyrighted ROMS from the old games that you need to play the old video games. Anyone who downloads the game system emulator software is on their own as far as ripping their own game ROMs to their hard drives - which is the only _legal_ way for anyone to possess a digital image of a physical game cartridge's ROM.
Re: Using other Engines for Myth
Wow, no I've not heard of the Myth4 project. Looks Great!!! I can't wait to share this info. In fact, this may be all that is needed as I agree with you about the "feel" being a little different on a new engine (Myth 3 comes to mind). The SC2 engine looks really well suited for a Myth mod as well.Isolder wrote:Myth in SC2 could be cool. I messed around a bit with getting Myth's colormaps into SC2, but had some trouble with it. Since everything is tileset based I basically made one tile the entire color map with a really small SC2 map. I have not yet figured out a way to import or export height maps from SC2.
People have been working on making "high resolution" sprites for Myth. You've probably heard of the Myth 4 The Wind Age project? Here's a screenshot showing high res sprites: HD Myth 63.
I suppose even a mod won't completely replace the original Myth 1 and 2 and I'm not really suggesting that it should. It just really baffles mine and a few of my other buddies minds that no other developer ever thought to continue this style of RTS. The Myth 1 and 2 servers were always full and the game received rave reviews so you'd "think" this new RTS format may have inspired developers to continue the genre. The Myth4 project's got me excited though, thanks for that heads up.
Re: Using other Engines for Myth
Unfortunately right now the Myth4 project is kind of hold from what I last heard.
As for SC2.. It has some potential. I'm thinking some pretty awesome modifications will come out for it, though it sounds like it's still far behind the already matured Warcraft 3 Editor. That's a bit disappointing since they're by the same company.. If Myth were in SC2 that would mean full 3d obviously, as well as other little things. The thought of being able to control Myth units the normal way and then being able to zoom in and have an older the shoulder view of individual units for some more fine tuned control sounds pretty sweet.
As for SC2.. It has some potential. I'm thinking some pretty awesome modifications will come out for it, though it sounds like it's still far behind the already matured Warcraft 3 Editor. That's a bit disappointing since they're by the same company.. If Myth were in SC2 that would mean full 3d obviously, as well as other little things. The thought of being able to control Myth units the normal way and then being able to zoom in and have an older the shoulder view of individual units for some more fine tuned control sounds pretty sweet.