Overriding Formations

[Pyro]

When it comes to formations, which mindset are you more likely to have? Some mapmakers like to include custom formations in their plugins. Does this matter to you when playing such plugins?

Does anyone ever use more than one set of formations for all the maps they play?

EDIT: To clarify... Forget the fact that you do have a way to override the override. Whether you don't mind plugins overriding formations or you do mind, there is always a way to override to undo either method.

Do you think the user should have the easiest control over formations or the mapmaker? If whatever formations you tend to use were your default (custom or not) and were not part of a local, would it bother you to find them overridden by a plugin you loaded or not?

[ozone]

I voted for "I don't mind when plugins override my formations" but I think I miss understood the poll. What I think is that if the user has set there own formations and that tag is in the local it should be the formations used but I also think that if a formation tag inside a plugin should not be ignored if there is no formation tag present in the local. It should override the defaults. I also think the computer controlled units told to line up in a formation should use the formation tag set in the plug and not the default ones as is the present case.

Now I also think the same should be said for the Observer Constants tag. The same rules should apply as above... But I can think of some instances where an Observer constant tag within the plug should even override the one in the local.

[Point]

exactly! the local folder should always override the plugin though the plugin should be able to set the formations just as it is now.

there are elements to the game and to the design of maps and tagsets that should not be dismissed just because there's a perception that some people dont actively use them or are even aware of them. unless there is a concrete reason to do so making changes for the sake of changes is inappropriate and unwelcome.

[ozone]

exactly! the local folder should always override the plugin though the plugin should be able to set the formations just as it is now.

Like I said this is the case with formations but lets just say I wanted to make a plugin where the only camera control you want the player to have is rotation. Their is no current method to insure this and I think there should be.

[juliocpaes]

I do not like formations much closed (shoulder to shoulder)
the formations I've ever seen more closed. I guess it was in an american civil war plugin.
for this type of plugin may be ideal to try to imitate the formation epoch of real war civil.
but the best formation of the medieval epoch it is that of the original Myth tag.

Julio

[punkUser]

What I think is that if the user has set there own formations and that tag is in the local it should be the formations used but I also think that if a formation tag inside a plugin should not be ignored if there is no formation tag present in the local.

This opinion presupposes that the default formations are "bad". For a user who likes (or is used to) the defaults, why are you making an extra step for them to have to go make a local tag just because they don't want to use yours?

Formations shouldn't even be tags if it was up to me. They are UI, like controls, and should be fully in the control of the user, not the mapmaker. And saying "oh but you can override the plugin formations if you want" is no better than me saying "oh but you can provide a separate add-on or formations tag for people who want that". If you really feel like your formations are so amazing for your plugin that I'll want to use them, give me a separate plugin/add-on to choose, but don't override it by default. I'm used to the formations that I use and overriding those is like changing my control scheme, which would also be completely unacceptable in a plugin.

[vinylrake]

not to poke up any more hornets, and I realize it's not exactly what's being discussed here, but I've often wished formations could be selected by a user in-game. selectable like presets - for saving/loading : save x number of formation tag files to a formation folder numbered sequentially - loaded at Myth boot time - then a key combo could be used to switch or cycle between the 10 (or whatever # n=) preset formations stored in the players folder.

[Point]

punk i simply hope then that its not up to you cuz those that play tagsets that are not regular myth need this and those of us that create tagsets and maps want this... much easier for player to choose not to play a plugin because of something that bugs them than make it harder for everyone who wants to play a plugin. especially since if you made custom formations that you are attached to they are not changed by the plugin the local folder overides them anyway.

[punkUser]

much easier for player to choose not to play a plugin because of something that bugs them than make it harder for everyone who wants to play a plugin. especially since if you made custom formations that you are attached to they are not changed by the plugin the local folder overides them anyway.

You can't make this argument both ways... in fact it's easier to do my suggestion of just having *separate* plugins/activation of controls/UI stuff than it is to go screw around with local. It's win/win really if you can just do it via two plugins or similar activation. You can't honestly argue that that's hard...

[Pyro]

... I think I miss understood the poll.

Yeah, sounds like you did. I should have been more careful in how I word it, but I feel no matter how I do it can still be taken differently. Think about how you feel about formations and forget the fact that you do have a way to override the override. Whether you don't mind plugins overriding formations or you do mind, there is always a way to override to undo either method.

The poll is basically, to see in which mindset people tend to have with formations. Do you think the user should have the easiest control over formations or the mapmaker? If whatever formations you tend to use were your default (custom or not) and were not part of a local, would it bother you to find them overridden by a plugin you loaded or not?

I have edited the first post to clarify.

[juliocpaes]

Pyro,

this poll about formations is for put in the "up dates Myth 2 - 1.8"?

Julio

[Point]

wording is everything on any poll... a plug in wont overide your formations.. if you made some edits in fear and they sit in your local folder those are the formations you get... in 1.72 and i would expect 1.8
if the plugin say like the greek tagset alters the formations in the tagset to actually make the plugin play right or like in civil war so the units transition from a marching column to a firing line or in a tank only battle map that works better with a more spread formation... tagset makers actually put in effort to make it work and look better having yet another plugin for each tagset to deal with this is ok if you only had one tagset but lets say you play several will the hosts choice overide all your other ones will your interface change will your preference change with the hosts choice... do all the map makers have to go back and specify which additional plugin would be required... its a mess anyway i look at it, when now its simple and works as it should. The map maker gets to set if they want what they think will work best for the map or tagset they have made... if the player thinks they can improve on it they can edit in fear and their local folder or maybe even patch will overide

bottom line I play lots of 3rd party plugs my own creations and others and I would rather not switch back and forth formations and interfaces etc.. manually when just by playing or hosting the map its done for me.

[GHOST®]

:: tosses in a nickel ::

Players should be able to set their formations and camera settings however they want just so long as . . .

1: Scripted units use the formations set by the mapmaker or default Bungie formations and

2: Camera Speeds use the mapmakers settings or Bungie defaults when controlled by map actions.

Scripted cut scenes and Enemy/NPC movements can be a balancing act that can quickly crumble if the Script is using tags with different spacing/speeds than those it was scripted with.

:: picks up 3 cents change ::

[punkUser]

Yeah I fully agree with that. The fact that currently formations over-ride/are used in mapmaker scripting at all seems sort of broken to me...