tain.totalcodex.net

Vindicator wrote:If only we could be as bona fide as Bungie was. Then we could spend a million dollars and print 100,000 copies of myth 2 a game that will erase hard drives, recall them all, go bankrupt, then get bought by microsoft. Make billions off a console title by leaving PC and Mac bungie fans in the DUST. Then when we have more money then GOD, only THEN will we CANCEL bungie.net so people can not even play myth online anymore. Thus giving a big middle finger to all no Halo bungie fans. Then and Only then, will we be qualified to create the next myth title.

This post doesn't help your argument that you have any connection with reality. Where to begin?

1. Bungie never shipped a copy that could delete hard drives, they were RESPONSIBLE. They discovered they had a problem and fixed it before any customers were effected.

2. They didn't go bankrupt, fixing the error WOULD have wiped them out financially so they got takeTwo to invest in them and cover the costs of reburning and shipping the corrected CDs so they could DO THE RIGHT THING.

3. Bungie would have made oodles of money whether they 'left PC and Mac fans in the dust' or not - Microsoft wanted Halo exclusively to only be on the x-box so that was what Bungie got all that money for - Bungie promised not to dance with anyone else at the prom. Sure it sucks, but I find it ironic that you are asking for half a million dollars based on a couple of game mods you've been involved with and you are slamming Bungie for making "more money than god" based on their track record of Myth I & II. Jealous much?

4. You think Bungie shut down Bungie.net because they made a lot of money so didn't need or care about bungie.net anymore? WTH are you thinking? Bungie didn't make any money from running bungie.net, whether you ever played online or not bungie didn't get any money from people playing on bungie.net. Bungie kept the server up and running for quite a while after they weren't even supporting Myth or making sales. They also released the gameserver code into the public domain for anyone who wanted to set up their own server. ANYONE with a static IP can run the bungie.net game server and allow people to play online (as guests). You won't have stats or personal icons, but they gave the community a FREE way for people to play Myth online - that's not enough for you? No doubt you have a long list of other companies who have sold their games and still provide online gameservers for people to play?

I find your bitterness at Bungie suprising, given your recent revelation that the main goal of your project is to bring Myth back to Bungie so you can work with/at Bungie. Did you forget that's your goal?

Vindicator wrote:I have watched around 200 KS videos over the last few months, and not 1 time have I seen people share their budget. I also never want that information from the project creators. How a company makes things happen to produce a product internally is the purview of the business and them alone.

Ironically,even though you say you don't want details the two kickstarter projects you personally have contributed to are projects that provide a fair amount of detail on either what the project will be and how it will be done (the calendar) or a very strong reputation and a lot of detail about the story (the cartoon).

Vindicator wrote:I should ask bungie to tell me everything about their inside deal with activision and what their budget is. I wonder how far that would get me....

People thinking the have the right to know about absolutely everything going on behind the scenes....Try that with any company of your choice. See how far it gets you.

Bungie is a private company and is self-funded, you are asking people for donations. When companies are funded by outside donations (think the Red Cross, other charities, or even publically traded companies) they DO have to provide some transparency. People who donate HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW HOW THEIR MONEY WILL BE SPENT. Surely, you don't think that people who donate or are weighing whether to donate to your project have no right to ask you questions about how the money will be spent?

Vindicator wrote:You guys ARE aware there is NO chance of pleasing everybody.

NO ONE is asking you to please everybody, that's a lame cop out on your part - all anyone is asking for is a little information. Personally, I am not looking for the details of how you spend your money and I am sure some of the money would go towards keeping your basement falloutshelter pantry stocked with canned peaches, I am just looking for some indication more than 'trust us' that you are even aware of and have considered and have budgeted for the ACTUAL cost and effort involved in a project of this magnitude.

hey!!!

I thought up a new slogan for your Kickstarter...

"WE CON DoOoOoooO IT!!!!"

I mean it says so much with so little words.

:) Da Cid (: McCl wrote:

Vindicator wrote:What I can say I DID DO was, when I paid Myrd to add some features to the myth engine long ago....

Thank you for clarifying that by the way.

I'd actually like some clarification on that allegation. Ren paid Myrd to add features to the Myth engine? If this is true, could someone provide some details/context/background information?

vinylrake wrote:

:) Da Cid (: McCl wrote:

Vindicator wrote:What I can say I DID DO was, when I paid Myrd to add some features to the myth engine long ago....

Thank you for clarifying that by the way.

I'd actually like some clarification on that allegation. Ren paid Myrd to add features to the Myth engine? If this is true, could someone provide some details/context/background information?

You can come to Udogs Hl and talk about it anytime you want.

kewl. thanks.

:) Da Cid (: McCl wrote:

Vindicator wrote:What I can say I DID DO was, when I paid Myrd to add some features to the myth engine long ago.

Thank you for clarifying that by the way.

For the record, "long ago" here means 2007, before Ren became a, uh, *ahem* controvercial figure.

OK, I think we all need to simmer down and take a step back and look at this. There are too many personal grudges and vindictiveness to really look at this objectively.

Guys (speaking to Ooga, Ren, and Road), I’m not a hater. I don’t have problems with any of you and I don’t want to start now. What I’m saying I’m saying in the way of friendly advice, so don’t take it wrong.

A lot of the questions that have been asked about your project here are perfectly valid. They may not always have been asked in a very diplomatic way, but they’re still valid. Unfortunately, you’ve spent most of your time avoiding giving any answers, which only adds fuel to the fire.

When asked about your budget, for example, your reply has been something to the effect of, “I don’t have to answer that.” That is NOT going to make people feel good about donating to you. Even if you technically don’t have to answer, is there really such a pressing need to keep it a secret? If someone asks you what you’re going to do with the money, refusing to answer them will automatically cause people to assume the worst.

When asked about legality issues, firing back with, “Well, so-and-so did something that wasn’t legal, too!” does NOT improve your image. I’m sure most of us have been taught the time-honored truth “just because someone else did it doesn’t make it okay.” Whether or not Magma has ever done anything illegal is not the issue. You need to defend yourselves without just pointing fingers at others. Leave what other people have done out of it.

And to everybody else: yes, you have questions, and they might even be good questions, but come on, let’s face it. Asking questions in a vindictive, snarky, or rude way is NOT a good way to get that question answered. Some of the questions have been aggressively accusatory, if not downright hostile, and that’s only going to put people on the defensive. Not all of the discussion has been like that, but there’s still been too much.

What we all need is to put our egos on the shelf (both sides of the dispute) and just lay everything out on the table so everyone can see it, keep cool heads, and try to keep our replies civil. Then maybe this discussion can go somewhere besides the dung heap.

The extent to which Ren and Ooga have dodged questions leads me to believe this is a scam, instead of simple naivety.

I'd seriously consider donating to this kickstarter if they would address whether or not they've spoken with TakeTwo about getting the rights to Myth. Of course, if my pessimism is right, they're just trying to steal people's money.

I've been avoiding having anything to do with this....

What bothers me the most is the way 'real time games' went about this. They basically said "Look, here's Myth 1.8, we made it all" when: A. Myth 1.8 isn't released, and B. They never talked to us.

This is deceitful to both unknowing backers, and us. Especially with the way they talked in the video, it made it seem like they were working on the engine, which is (as far as I know) untrue.

Then, when they showed up here to talk about it, they pointed fingers at us.

I am personally curious about where the $450,000 is going, did they talk to Take 2 and were given that number? Are they just going to use it to keep working on a plugin? (I am not understanding this, and it is my biggest question mark about the whole thing)

This whole thing ticks me off so much, I am tempted to just leave the community (for a while, at least).

Ooga, Ren, Road, I've worked with you before, and I could say mean things and point fingers, but I am not. However, being a part of Magma, I am having a finger pointed at by you, and as far as I am concerned, that's not very nice.

JG..

and B. They never talked to us.

We didnt talk to "us"?
In case you had not noticed, magma likes to go around and ban people they do not agree with. 1.8 is the current tech to work with. Really I should have put 2.0 on the box, because it would be around 2.0 when a new myth title would get shipped.

People might not be reading or watching the information we are putting out there. It really feels like I can address what the questions people have in many areas and people will not take the time to look into it.

Vindicator wrote:JG..

and B. They never talked to us.

We didnt talk to "us"?
In case you had not noticed, magma likes to go around and ban people they do not agree with. 1.8 is the current tech to work with. Really I should have put 2.0 on the box, because it would be around 2.0 when a new myth title would get shipped.

People might not be reading or watching the information we are putting out there. It really feels like I can address what the questions people have are in many areas are, and people will not take the time to look into it.

Yet, here you are talking to people. On the tain forums. You still have some of the magma people's E-Mails, and they can be reached via the about page on projectmagma.net. You didn't do any of this.

No where on the kickstarter page does it mention ProjectMagma or MythDev, the people that made Myth what it is today, and to the people that don't know the history, you are making it seem like you guys made 1.8, which is extremely offensive to me.

I still haven't seen the answer to the question I mentioned in my previous post, that's been my only question.

I'm Jon God, and I approve this message.

First of all I was in myth dev at one point so GG there.

I did not think Magma would WANT US to mention them in this early stage. I really do not see why I would thank mythdev since they worked on post myth 3 stuff and not really with myth 2 at all.

NEW AMAZING PRODUCT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/myt ... sts/337234

Vindicator wrote:First of all I was in myth dev at one point so GG there.

I did not think Magma would WANT US to mention them in this early stage. I really do not see why I would thank mythdev since they worked on post myth 3 stuff and not really with myth 2 at all.

Even if you were a part of MythDev, you weren't the person working on the code. As for why you'd thank them, MythDev and ProjectMagma made the first few updates to Myth 2 together. 1.3.2-1.4.1 IIRC.

My issue is that you are not giving credit were it is due. Dozens of people have helped work on Myth since 1.3, and none of them are given credit here, and instead, you are telling people you did these new features.

Thanks Renwood, that video really addresses all the concerns and questions I had about the project so you can be expecting my donation soon(TM).