tain.totalcodex.net

The thing is the disagreement stems from varying perception of an issue:

1) Playmyth ate shit. Isn't coming back. New members can't get to it, the solid 150 players there are all it has. IF that were the case, a move to Mnet would be the BEST thing. New members can register play the game, etc. Old members get a all the benefits of an up and running server.

2) Playmyth downtime is temporary. Then we go a while with no new members (BAD, but not Worst), and hang in there till it gets fixed. This presents the best option as the fewest players are lost in total.

Guess what! It looked like option 1 for a while. Blades's own words suggested for a while that it was not going to get done. Read it. That is what it says. Forgive us if we believed him.

It now looks more like situation 2.

If things stayed how they are now (That is PMnet metaserver working, but no registrations), that would be the WORST. No returning or new players? That is cutting off what little bit of oxygen the community gets. We lose current players, we lose returning players, we lose new players.

But like I said: if PMnet is getting fixed this is all MOOT as we will be in good shape with new and returning players.

-DA

AblitERateOR wrote:I guarantee if you went round and surveyed everyone on myth, the majority would be in favour of staying on playmyth.

I think I'd agree the majority of people on PMnet want to stay on PMnet. I'm not really sure what all that means or how it pertains to this discussion, but ... well, there it is.

AblitERateOR wrote:I cannot understand how you people continually insist that we must change over to mariusnet full, so that the 10 or so new people that have come to myth during the playmyth websites downtime can play with everyone, when such a shift would mean losing probably more than 100 long term players that have proven their dedication to myth.

How is it you're able to determine just how many new players there are in the Myth community while simultaneously divining how many players we'd lose? Could you just consider for a moment that you may be guessing and that your guess is a bit ... emotional? Also, if these players have proven their hardcore dedication, I'm not sure why they'd be so bothered to switch to Marius. It takes about three clicks.

Horus wrote:That line sounds like a personal vendetta.

I have nothing against the guy that runs PMnet. I don't even know him.

Horus wrote:And yet it wasn't until recently that PMnet was run by a Group (the PMAs) - the only reason they haven't been running anything is because their site is broke, and now getting fixed.

I'm not sure how that relates to the fact that only one guy is running PMnet. I own and operate an online Magic: The Gathering league. If my personal site goes down, the league site will be fine. If I go down (hit by a bus?), the site will continue on because all the eggs are far from being in one basket. Last year, we lost our main PHP developer. Things sucked for a while, but I hired a new guy and we kept going. I'd hire two or three if I had people willing to do the work. How many people might be willing to keep any given server in top shape? The fact that there's only one guy running things right now says something awfully strange and, yes, spells out potential for a recurrence of our current situation some time in the (near?) future.

Horus wrote:I am against losing either server.

I'm against losing either server, too. I'd like both to be not only operational, but also viable. Good site health doesn't mean anything if there's no one there to take care of it when a problem arises. PMnet's issues are more than just a broken system. They need plans to ensure longevity.

The problem here seems to be definition of what we're arguing over shutting down. You guys don't think the fixed, super shiny new PMnet should be shut down. Fair enough. Some people here think the broken, vulnerable PMnet needs to be shut down. Realize that both sides in most situations are arguing over whether or not to shut down two completely different entities. When you don't even agree on the subject, you can't have a discussion.

I'm against losing either server. Things as they are currently, however, are worse than a server loss because there is no future for this community. PMnet needs to be fixed solidly, then handed over to a team of dedicated individuals interested in the long-term viability of the server.

Anthson wrote:

AblitERateOR wrote:I cannot understand how you people continually insist that we must change over to mariusnet full, so that the 10 or so new people that have come to myth during the playmyth websites downtime can play with everyone, when such a shift would mean losing probably more than 100 long term players that have proven their dedication to myth.

How is it you're able to determine just how many new players there are in the Myth community while simultaneously divining how many players we'd lose? Could you just consider for a moment that you may be guessing and that your guess is a bit ... emotional? Also, if these players have proven their hardcore dedication, I'm not sure why they'd be so bothered to switch to Marius. It takes about three clicks.

My numbers werent supposed to be exact, i was just trying to illustrate that a switch would result in losing many more people than the handful of new people that have tried to play during playmyth downturn - of which we have no idea if they will hand around more than a few weeks/months, while the people we would lose are people that have stayed true to the game for many years... presuming playmyth.net is back up soon, which now looks likely

I dont deny that it's not hard to switch over to mariusnet, but there are plenty of people that dont know mariusnet exists or is working or has ranks. Or what about all the people that come back every few months.. what happens when they come back to try and log on to playmyth, find it doesnt work, figure it is lost, then go do something else and forget about myth. For better or for worse, playmyth is overall the favoured server in the myth community, and wether or not they have legitimate reasons, a switch to mariusnet would result in people stopping playing

AblitERateOR wrote:My numbers werent supposed to be exact, i was just trying to illustrate that a switch would result in losing many more people than the handful of new people that have tried to play during playmyth downturn - of which we have no idea if they will hand around more than a few weeks/months, while the people we would lose are people that have stayed true to the game for many years... presuming playmyth.net is back up soon, which now looks likely

Again, you're just guessing. You really don't have any idea how many new Myth players there are or how many there would be if they could play on an active server or how many old Myth players will quit if PMnet no longer exists. I don't know, either, and that's why I shy away from making guesses carefully worded as though they're hard facts.

You also haven't said what would happen if PMnet breaks again. We all know Blades plans on putting forth zero effort after he fixes (if he fixes) the current system. He said so himself. So really, how long 'till we're in the same boat once again?

---post deleted to reduce confusion i caused by my inaccurate attribution of comments ----



summary:

I'll be happy when both servers and sites are 100% functional.

Maybe I'm too simple, but I can't figure out who you're arguing with or what exactly you're advocating.

Anthson wrote:Maybe I'm too simple, but I can't figure out who you're arguing with or what exactly you're advocating.

He is countering AblitERateOR's comments.

I think its retarded people that there are people not willing to switch to Mnet. I understand there are people that don't know about Mnet, don't know its working again, or don't know how to switch. But the people that do know of Mnet that might be willing to stop playing Myth if PMnet goes down and not go to Mnet are just retarded. If they were so "dedicated" they would switch. The game isn't affected by what server you are using.

Those retards probably forgot or don't know that Mnet came before PMnet. The only reason PMnet became more popular was that at first I believe PMnet was supporting all 3 Myth games, something that Mnet at the moment didn't if memory serves right. Then Mnet crashed and people just stuck with PMnet. Now Mnet is back and PMnet is sinking... who will do down with that ship? I of course would prefer that both are up and running but if PMnet will stay in it's "sinking" mode than a switch to Mnet isn't so crazy.

Is it just me, or is every thread being posted lately degenerating into an Mnet/PMnet debate?

Pyro wrote:

Anthson wrote:Maybe I'm too simple, but I can't figure out who you're arguing with or what exactly you're advocating.

He is countering AblitERateOR's comments.

Techically your wrong on that, a number of quotes that he's replying to have been mis-labelled as AblitERateOR's, when they are in fact Anthson's. Which leads to Anthson's confusion.


Personally I will only permenently switch to Mariusnet, if Pmnet is shutdown. Nevertheless I will always defend Pmnet against those who would advocate it's closure. Instead I advocate it's repair while at the same time understanding that it may take Blades awhile to do those repairs, considering his RL current issues (plus the fact that if he ignored his gigs to do the repairs he'd lose the money to keep the server going).

Horus wrote:

Pyro wrote:

Anthson wrote:Maybe I'm too simple, but I can't figure out who you're arguing with or what exactly you're advocating.

He is countering AblitERateOR's comments.

Techically your wrong on that, a number of quotes that he's replying to have been mis-labelled as AblitERateOR's, when they are in fact Anthson's. Which leads to Anthson's confusion.

I deleted the post since it appears I quoted incorrectly and was creating confusion. My apologies.

Horus wrote: Personally I will only permenently switch to Mariusnet, if Pmnet is shutdown. Nevertheless I will always defend Pmnet against those who would advocate it's closure. Instead I advocate it's repair while at the same time understanding that it may take Blades awhile to do those repairs, considering his RL current issues (plus the fact that if he ignored his gigs to do the repairs he'd lose the money to keep the server going).

I too would like to see PlayMyth back up and running with new user registrations, and a near-realtime display of what users/games are currently on playmyth enabled.

With the metaserver button built right into Myth and webpages a player can use to check who is on what server, there's really no need to only have one server or the other.

Khadrelt wrote:Is it just me, or is every thread being posted lately degenerating into an Mnet/PMnet debate?

Yes, you are right

And I think there's no reason to quarrel about that (Pmnet and Mnet) anymore. I would rather wait some time and see how things will be going with these servers. And now just play where you want

Horus wrote:

Pyro wrote:

Anthson wrote:Maybe I'm too simple, but I can't figure out who you're arguing with or what exactly you're advocating.

He is countering AblitERateOR's comments.

Techically your wrong on that, a number of quotes that he's replying to have been mis-labelled as AblitERateOR's, when they are in fact Anthson's. Which leads to Anthson's confusion.

Ah yes this is true. The first two quotes are of Anthson and the rest were of AblitERateOR. But I don't see why there has to be confusion... it doesn't actually matter who said those things he was still commenting on them.

Horus wrote:... I will always defend Pmnet against those who would advocate it's closure. Instead I advocate it's repair...

I thought people were saying if it won't be getting repaired then close it. What are you thoughts on that?

I don't know of anyone who would want to keep it open if they knew 100 percent for sure the server would never get repaired. If that person is out there, there's no point arguing with him. He's obviously some sort of combination of selfish, ignorant, and short sighted. Ditto to the brats that want PMnet to stay closed off to outsiders, but add "elitist" to their adjective schmorgas board.

Pyro wrote:I thought people were saying if it won't be getting repaired then close it. What are you thoughts on that?

If it's still alive, and can be played on, then there is potiential that it will be fixed - even when others do not believe that is so.

Horus wrote:

Pyro wrote:I thought people were saying if it won't be getting repaired then close it. What are you thoughts on that?

If it's still alive, and can be played on, then there is potiential that it will be fixed - even when others do not believe that is so.

Id rather know then not know.