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Chicken Berel wrote:HD stuff got me to check out myth again after being gone for years.

Your persistent use of 'HD' to describe High Resolution units is ridiculous. If you want to use acronyms, please at least learn what they mean.

Chicken Berel wrote:You seem to dislike me because I am a fan of it, and that I think its good apple did'nt buy Bungie. Your one of those mac boys that get all pissed off if anybody says something other "OMG APPLE BEST EVA!"

Your projecting is illuminating, though completely off-base.

I never said I wanted Apple to buy Bungie, I never wanted Apple to buy Bungie, in fact I think it would have been disastrous for Bungie if Apple had bought them - Apple has proved time and again that it has even less knowledge of the game industry than you do. Just because i don't like what MS did with Bungie, that doesn't mean Apple would have done any better - I understand the financial reasons for their decisions, but I wish they had been able to stay independant and develop games for PCs/Macs/and consoles.

I prefer the Mac OS to any other OS I have used (and I've used plenty), and i like Apple's physical and interface design, but I am not a fan of Apple itself. I think they are too insular and elitist, have almost no loyalty to their customers, and are run by an egocentric control freak.

Chicken Berel wrote:Now I will go play Call of duty black ops, Another great game in a huge lineup of great games that will NEVER EVER be on the mac. GG moronRake, Go make a great game since you know soo much about them.

Only an idiot believes that all you need to make great games is knowledge about games.

Similarly, only a fool believes that making a unit conversion for an existing game is creating a brand new game.

But as for programming skillz? I've been a professional software developer since probably before you were born.

I wonder, is it possible to insinuate any more logical fallacies or did you hit the max on that sentence?

As for game knowledge, I've probably been playing, reading about, following the game industry since before you were bornn as well. My first computer gaming experience was playing Pong on standalone arcade consoles.

Not a single one of those things will help you be a good developer, any more than looking at paintings will improve your ability as a painter. One of the things that tip me off that someone is either (a) a pompous blowhard or (b) full of shit is if they start talking about how much longer they've been doing something than you - anything, even being alive. Some people use age as if it were rank. Ridiculous. I've been playing guitar hero longer than GuitarHeroPhenom, which shows you just how much that extra time counts for - jack and shit. Not even having more _experience_ is an absolute guarantee that you're better than someone at something. Someone could dig ditches the wrong way for thirty years and have some young fellow come along and find a better way - who in the end is more productive?

Right.

Even ren has used this fallacy (often) and I feel the exact same way about it towards him as I do about you saying it.

Is there some other beef you have with me? Or is this just you just being chivalrous and jumping in to defend the person who says he is not Renwood?

I call bullshit when I see it, and you've been full of it lately. I _know_ where renwood stands as a amateur game developer, whereas you can only guess - so when you say you have more knowledge than him in your little finger in an area that you just admitted is not your specialty or even a regular thing you do, you bet your ass im' going to call you on it.

Look, could you guys please take this out of the thread?

oogaBooga wrote:I wonder, is it possible to insinuate any more logical fallacies or did you hit the max on that sentence?

Please enlighten me as to what 'logical fallacies' you see in that sentence.
If I didn't have at least a decent level of programming skillz I wouldn't have been successful in the career I am in. You can dismiss my experiences all you want or say it's irrelevant since it's not specifically 'game-related' but you asked if I had programming skillz. The answer is "Yes, I do - and fairly extensive programming skills, thanks for asking". If you feel you can refute that statement, be my guest - as a non-programmer, please illuminate for me why you feel a) I don't have any programming skillz, b) why you even feel qualified to make that assessment.

Not a single one of those things will help you be a good developer, any more than looking at paintings will improve your ability as a painter. One of the things that tip me off that someone is either (a) a pompous blowhard or (b) full of shit is if they start talking about how much longer they've been doing something than you - anything, even being alive.

I gave my extensive experience of playing, following the industry (I mean the Game Developer industry, not the game industry) as an example of the degree of GAME KNOWLEDGE I have. You are welcome to argue that knowledge doesn't MAKE you a good game developer (which is ironically one of my points of contention with Ren ), but I don't think you are trying to say that you can be a good game developer without a decent level of knowledge about the thing you are trying to create, right? e.g. You can't dismiss my opinion because I have no knowledge about gaming or game development and then when I tell you my knowledge level turn around and argue that knowledge isn't important to being a good game developer. You can argue one or the other, but if you try to argue both you are flip-flopping.

Some people use age as if it were rank. Ridiculous.

I agree, but when you ask how much KNOWLEDGE I have, my experience IS relevant. Experience is a way of accumulating knowledge- and the amount of knowledge I have accumulated is relevant, and the longer time span I have been accumulating that knowledge gives me a broader base of game related knowledge. it's not the kind of knowledge that is going to help me extend the Myth2 engine and give it great new features or code a new game, but I never said it made me a good game developer, I just gave my experience to show that contrary to Ren's (and apparently your) ignorant opinion, I do actually have some idea what I am talking about when i talk on the topic of games and game development.

I _know_ where renwood stands as a amateur game developer, whereas you can only guess - so when you say you have more knowledge than him in your little finger in an area that you just admitted is not your specialty or even a regular thing you do, you bet your ass im' going to call you on it.

Call me all you want, but speaking of calling BS - The reason I can 'only guess' at Ren's game developer skills is because I'VE NEVER SEEN ANY EVIDENCE OF THESE SO-CALLED "SKILLS". All I've ever seen of the 'game development' skills you and Renwood claim he has is a set of newly rendered/animated/textured units. I readily admit that there is a lot of work involved in developing new high res units (even if the models weren't created from scratch) and in animating them, and texturizing them, and creating the new attack sprites/projectiles/particle systems and getting everything to work right in fear - it's a LOT of work - but my impression is that most of that heavy lifting was done by YOU. BUT even if Renwood did ALL of the work to create The Wind Age units ALL BY HIMSELF that has about nothing to do with being a 'game developer'. That's showing evidence of 3D modelling/rendering skills, and I don't know exactly how I'd categorize Fearing, but Units are NOT a game. A Unit Set is not a game. Lots of people have great ideas for units, and maps and solo campaigns but ideas don't make a person a 'developer'. You have to DEVELOP A GAME TO BE A GAME DEVELOPER. For sake of argument I would be willing to consider a radically different total conversion as a new 'game' - or at least the result of game development skills. But no new total conversion or no new GAME? No Game Developer.

I am sure Ren has a lot of interesting ideas for where he'd like to take the Myth engine, and probably oodles of peachy ideas for a creative new solo campaign (see? I am being nice) but I have YET TO SEE OR HEAR OF ANYTHING Renwood has actually done that is anything remotely like developing or designing a game, so I call BS. Again - no game? No game development.

Feel free to enlighten me.

and again : I LIKE THE WAY THE WIND AGE units LOOK - I CAN TELL THEY TOOK A LOT OF WORK. KUDOS FOR THAT ACCOMPLISHMENT.

ps. before you flame me or accuse me of just hating you or ren or your project please re-read what i wrote. I've made several compliments about your project and the work done so far, and to avoid unnecessary provocation and try to keep things more civil i've even avoided using the acronym you both dislike for your project.

c'mon vinyl
don't even waste time in such discussions
even if chicken berrel is ren, or if he's not
it's only a waste of time, and everybody knows who's who and so...

I noticed though in the last 6 months that slowly people are disappearing from the forums
and less people are interested in myth

for example I'm asking for testers, and just jon and you responded, nobody else...

I think we need to start motivating forum readers into myth playing and the actual game
and this discussions only scare people away
even if it's ren the one that signs as chicken berrel, the more players and people working on myth the better, even if we dislike them as people...
I know more than a negative character to many who contributed a LOT to the myth community...
let's concentrate on games...
and mac and Halo?
well. it's all history now...
it's like what would have happened if Columbus landed in india instead of america...
year or so later somebody would have landed anyways....
you can't change history...
let's concentrate on myth's future....

I have to agree. Having almost every thread on this forum going up in flames is getting really old.

Let us focus on the positive. Conan started his new show on monday and its looking great!

VR I dont dout you can write code of main frames or coffee makers, I just dout that anything you know will translate into something useable to the myth community or any other form of video game entertainment ever in your lifetime, not because you can't do it, but because you just wont ever do it. Yours seems to be more the role of a critic then a creator (of anything entertainment related). Please prove me wrong and make a program that can import and place scenery from TFL into myth 2 perfectly, ad voice activation to myth so I can just say "formation 1" instead of making my stubby fingers push a button, or some other much needed myth tools.

I think oogabooga jumped in because he thought you were attacking me only because you think I am this Renwood guy that seems to be such a hot topic.

Now I am sorry I ever made any statements to get you in such a tizzy, because now Carlinho and oogabooga and others are wasting time on a thread that has been twisted into something negative. So lets kiss and make up ok?

XOXOXOXO

I really just come here to check out progress by Point and carlinho on their upcoming WWII HD stuff any way, Not to argue with people about whatever.

Chicken Berel wrote:Yours seems to be more the role of a critic then a creator (of anything entertainment related). Please prove me wrong..

Sorry, I don't do "requests", and have less than zero interest in making something for you to 'prove' anything to you. But you really think I am just a 'critic'? That I don't create anything entertainment related? Let's see - besides offering help to just about any mapmaker looking for something I can do in the limited time I have available (mostly testing - though I offered space and a page on my website to host The Wind Age when 'that guy named Renwood' was having problems with his site and was desperate to get his unit set released to the public), providing hosting for Myth content that has lost it's home (Pyro's excellent Myth Starter Guide), setting up forums and ftp sites for other map creators to facilitate their myth projects, collecting and publishing the largest online archive of myth documents, dead web sites/pages and myth related ephemera in mything.org, I've created a couple of maps, a handful of plugins and a utility that helps people in my order keep up to date with our massive set of myth maps and plugins we play with. If none of that interests you or meets your criteria of being anything 'entertainment related' or qualifies me as anything other than a 'critic' in your eyes, sorry, but that's not my problem.

ps. as long as that peachy berel fellow doesn't continue attacking/insulting me this is my last post in this thread. [note: there are no personal attacks in this post aimed at chicken or anyone else. there is nothing in this post anyone needs to defend.]

I dont have the patience to wade through your point-by-point textwall, so i'll sum it up to this: I don't care whether or not you are aware of what renwood does or has done, but it is definitely a hell of a lot more than any single person here would expect. Especially here. It's not a single job, and to sit and explain every single thing would be impossible. You might as well criticize a foreman at a construction site because you havent seen him haul sacks of cement.*

*Actually, that analogy isnt even accurate - as a foreman Ren would have hauled more cement than some laborers. That's kind of the point - everything from photoshop to being the communications liason.

Could a mod please either delete everything after VR's first post or split this post into another thread starting after VR's first post?

VR! One thing I see a lot of on these forums is people asking for scripting help.
Since you have programming/code writng skillz, could you help the WWII HD stuff and others with their scripting needs? not calling you out at all, just wondering if you have ever considered scripting. Nothing can really happen in myth without scripting, not matter how cool all the content is.

oh c'mon guys
it doesn't matter who has the biggest dick

it only matters that most of us are men, and it's pathetic to see you guys showing them off

just let's concentrate on the precious stuff that gathers us together: myth

if not the thread it's going to be called: 1 week and what could have been avoided....

Chicken Berel wrote:VR! One thing I see a lot of on these forums is people asking for scripting help.
Since you have programming/code writng skillz, could you help the WWII HD stuff and others with their scripting needs?

A very reasonable request given my skill set, and I have considered diving into scripting in the past, but unfortunately a side-effect of coding all day is that I don't really have any enthusiasm / interest for more coding when I am not at work. I do like coding, and i like scripting more than writing in compiled languages, but I don't have the patience to code and debug at the end of the day after I've already been coding and debugging for the previous 8-10 hours. That's a big part of why I haven't written more 'fun' apps.

ps. mine is huge.

Yea I i can relate to that VR, not wanting to do code writing/scripting after you have done it all day long at work. I myself, can't script my way out of a wet paper bag.

Carlinho, we are playing nice now, dont worry, the drama in this thread is over ~8^)