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Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 12:51 am
by sillek
Well, it would still be a much better step to have the maps filed by type and whatnot then to have nothing.
Plus, barely anyone knows about hl.udogs.net since I see people asking for BASIC plug-ins all over.
Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 8:04 am
by Phex
Yes its time to gather the Myth community on one page where they can download all the stuff - this was mentioned a thousand times. Its very difficult to make a plugin open for the public if the public is split up between playmyth, mariusnet, project magma, hl.udogs.net and order homepages. In my opinion, it would also attract more audience if there was one page you could send newbies to.
The only feature I would personally like to see on the Tain is an option to rate stuff and an option to post reviews. It would also be nice if you could post screenshots with your submitted plugins, but not neccessary.
But before there is no Tain at all, create it as a simple download mirror like hl.udogs.net, as sillek proposed it.
If the authors think its too much work for them, what about posting small "factory orders" here. It would allow other people that are into web design to help them.
rgds,
- Phex.
Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 8:59 am
by dangerella
Theads about The Tain seem sure to die fastly.
Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 10:47 am
by The Elfoid
A lot of people seem to want it to get done and I think Magma should put all other projects on hold until it is finished. Well, other than TFL 1.5.0, which I want so I can run a decent version of TFL on my Mac OS X.3 comp (1.4.0 sux)
Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2004 5:16 pm
by sillek
To my knowledge Magma aren't working on all that many projects, anyway. O:
Most of them seem to be idle/away from Myth stuff .. except for 1.5.1
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 1:11 pm
by mauglir
Sillek, that isn't true, though I admit it's hard to tell what we're really working on since our website hasn't been seriously updated for a while.
We have some very big projects in the works, the first of which is the final release of 1.5.1, which should be our last update. This will be released with some fanfare.
There are some new plugins in the works as well, including a multi-level coop campaign called Laws of Evil, Special Forces 2, and a new conversion based on an old game called Syndicate.
Most of the Magma team is still very active, it's just an unfortunate coincidence that the two people most directly involved with The Tain are now both pretty innactive.
I'll also take this opportunity to appologize for not being on Hotline recently. I've been working offline a lot lately. I'll hop back on HL soon though.
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2004 9:16 pm
by sillek
It's hard to tell, you're right. Those plugins you've listed have been lurking around for quite some time now. Plus, a lot of magma members went missing on Hotline.. so it's hard to tell what's up.
Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 12:28 pm
by mauglir
Most of our projects are pretty involved, so yea, they take a long time. Syndicate is essentially a total conversion with new units, all new tags, new maps, new models, etc. SF2 is a ton of new tags and many new maps, plus Ozone has been pretty much working on it solo (I've contributed a few small things). LoE is a multiple level solo/coop project with tons of new tags, five new maps, many new units and some very complicated scripting.
In the end though, I think all of these will be worth the wait 
Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 4:20 pm
by Oroboros
The Elfoid wrote:A lot of people seem to want it to get done and I think Magma should put all other projects on hold until it is finished. Well, other than TFL 1.5.0, which I want so I can run a decent version of TFL on my Mac OS X.3 comp (1.4.0 sux)
Hi Elfoid,
I don't want to quell your enthusiasm, but I see a difference between people who want to get it done and people who will get it done.
I haven't counted the number of people who would like to see it completed. Nor have I counted the number of people who, when finished, would actually use it regularly enough to justify creating it. I'll assume you have some realistic numbers to go on, but "a lot of people" is a pretty vague reference that usually means "most of the guys I regularly play with, like 8 people, really want this to happen". Lobby-chat doesn't really count: talk is cheaper than air in a lobby, and everyone wants cool stuff done, so long as they're not the ones doing it.
I think if 10% of the entire Myth playing community put in $20 to get the Tain Project Manager some beers, maybe something would happen.
Going by PlayMyth stats, each day has between 100-600 players, of a registered pool of over 7600 logins (prolly lots of dupes in that, but who knows what percentage that is... And how many of those 7600 still play?) 10% of that is 10 to 600 people. Is $200 to $1200 dollars a reasonable amount to develop a new Mill? I'm just trying to give a measurement of value between what it takes to build it, and the value the end-user would get out of it. If the end-user really only downloads 5 or 6 plugs from a 300-strong library of plugs... Is it worth it?
-Oro
Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 5:47 pm
by sillek
Well, outside of co-op plugins, the only things played are Recon and Combat. I've tried asking people to play something else but they just ignore me and host another Combat game. www.the-package.net has 28GB served but I never see any third party stuff being played outside of co-op or some not very often Blue & Grey.
Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2004 11:09 pm
by carlinho
Oro I understand your point but if that's the way the people who are doing the tain think, then why not make it public it will never happen...
people are asking because it is posted and lot of talk has been going on that tha tain is going to happen.
I understand reality sometimes is harsh, actually most of the time...but then why not go public and answer the question: is the tain going to happen, or it's just a mirage that we are trying to get hold of to avoid seeing our dreams slowly die?
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 7:33 am
by Oroboros
Hi carlinho,
My attempt at rationalising an effort to make the Tain is/was NOT shared by the original developers. My initial post to this thread pretty much summed up what happened - A great idea got bogged down by spending lots of time on trivial matters and next-to no time on substance.
(The most perplexing part is - The Mill was ported and web-ready. At least 70% of the Mill was prepped and ready for publication - Sure, there were mistakes and adverse parsing problems in a small amount of pages. But do you REMEMBER the original Mill??? Ye Gods...)
I'm not saying the Tain developers were lazy or stupid - far from it. They're pretty switched-on programmers. But programmers tend to be rubbish at organising. GREAT at problem-solving. Crap at project management.
This is what sinks most 'great idea' projects. You start with the best intentions, then get bogged down trying to perfect the simple stuff, while putting off the difficult stuff. The project stops being a service to the community and starts becoming a pride issue, or a monumental burden, where you don't want to release a shoddy version of your dream. So, with no possible way to win, ya just shelve the effort and start something else you'll have trouble finishing.
I can't answer your question. For the Tain to happen you have to get someone in charge who stops thinking in terms of bells n' whistles, frilly bits, 'nice-to-have' add-ons and just serves up the reliable meat 'n potatoes service the public can use - Upload, short description, download, editor's review. Flashy graphics, polls, additional commentary, films and fan stuff can wait, or be added to when the demand is sufficient, NOT when the programmer thinks it would be 'cool' to add on some new techological devilry.
-Oro
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2004 4:44 pm
by msheets
Yes we've dropped the ball, things are being uploaded and that part is mostly done. Now me and Gholsbane need to get together and get the frontend plugged together. It shouldn't take too long but we've both been rather busy during christmas etc. Not really anything anyone can help with at the moment, sorry.
Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 7:18 pm
by carlinho
well i can't criticize, I'm good at starting projects and really bad at finishing them...
hope the tain has a luckier ending than many of my proyects...
Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2004 9:15 pm
by Lowry
I would also support getting a beta up.
Let ppl dl new and old maps, mods and tc.
With the beta you might get feedback/help and more interest in myth.