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Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2005 6:23 pm
by Horus
I'm still waiting on the V 1.5.1d that Myrd said he'd be making to fix a number of bugs I found recently in 1.5.1!!!
Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:36 am
by GHOST®
[color=DFC99B]
Guest wrote:GHOST! I should get on hl and talk to you about some of the balance issues in ROTD. Too many to list here. I wanted to get ahold of you along time ago about finishing ROTD. No one could get ahold of you so I took it upon myslef to work on the map and see what I could do. Seeing as how it was my first experience in making a map in Myth, the learning of Fear and Loathing took awhile. I must say that fear is FUN. I Wanted your permission to do a different version of ROTD and I will tell you about some of the changes to see if you approve/dissaprove of the whole idea. I could always just use them for my own map. Anyways, glad a good scripter has come back to community and I hope I can talk to you soon on Hl.
Hmmm, balance issues. I`d have to say youre the first person I recall to mention a problem with balance. :oO
a couple things to keep in mind with RotD when considering balance. ;o)
First off, its script is
highly dynamic. If you play RotD solo, it will detect you are playing alone and adjust itself to that fact as well as adjust further depending what difficulty you choose to play at.
If playing cooperatively, it will again adjust itself according to how many people are playing as well as what difficulty was chosen.
Your given the option of adjusting the script further by Taunting Mazz at the games start to increase your enemies starting XP points, how quickly/many enemy units respawn, again this is variable dependent on what difficulty level you selected.
Add to that you can also remove unwanted units and even swap out the 4/8 zerks for 4/8 Heron guards, as well as getting more units to distribute (or get rid of), when more than 8 players are present.
And this is just the start of the script and randomness, so you can see how balance might be a bit abstract with RotD. ;o)
Now, I`ll freely admit the *flow* of the enemy and waves may not always be what Id like, but all in all , given the overall randomness of things, I think I came pretty close to the flow of Mazz IV which is what I basically wanted.
At this point my goal is to fix any outstanding issues that are detrimental to game play such as the OOS/crash issues. Beyond that a bit of polishing/fine tuning and she will be done to my satisfaction.
I_am interested in your observations, just stating chances are unlikely that I will be adding or changing anything furhter in RotD.
Feel free to release another version, I just ask that you wait until RotDs final and out and that you dont use Requiem of the Dead as the maps name/title. :o)
PM me if youre ever on HL, Im on and off throughout most the day.
GL HF and Die well.[/color]
Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 9:52 am
by Lothar
GHOST® wrote:Add to that you can also remove unwanted units and even swap out the 4/8 zerks for 4/8 Heron guards, as well as getting more units to distribute (or get rid of), when more than 8 players are present.
Actually, if there are more than 8 players playing, you CANNOT taunt any of the new units you receive in order to remove them. 
Nor can you taunt any of the archers once you get the reinf. And if you taunt 1 zerk, the other 3 always get whisked away as well (but not the 4 from reinf!).
I don't know if you resolved this in your most recent Omnipatch version. Just wanted to make sure you were aware of it. ^.^
Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:12 am
by Gleep FoG
Hopefully I can get on Hl today, but if I don't, the balance issue I was referring to wasn't about the light vs dark balance but more of the light versus light balance in coop. It would be nice if everyone who played could have a equal challenge and fun no matter what unit they played as. As I have played MANY rotd game and with diff units I have seen that some are less effective or some are too powerful. Some of the main issues are: Pfer can vet a lot more easily then other dorfs. Arcs start off shooting so slow and they can't really vet to well unless they all share a hellfire bow. Sixteen arcs on this map doesn't really help, they seem to just cause a lot of friendly fire, mb if you could just taunt them it would help(like Lothar posted). The electro is only effective against ghols, pigs, and ghosts. I just wanted to being some of this to your attention. If you don't think any of that needs changing then I'll keep my peace and be glad that rotd is no longer going to be a 'beta'. If I remake a version of Rotd, I'll call it something else of course and thanks for allowing it!
Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:29 pm
by GHOST®
[color=DFC99B]
Actually, if there are more than 8 players playing, you CANNOT taunt any of the new units you receive in order to remove them.
Nor can you taunt any of the archers once you get the reinf. And if you taunt 1 zerk, the other 3 always get whisked away as well (but not the 4 from reinf!).
I don't know if you resolved this in your most recent Omnipatch version. Just wanted to make sure you were aware of it. ^.^
Oversite on my part, all fixed up now.
Hopefully I can get on Hl today, but if I don't, the balance issue I was referring to wasn't about the light vs dark balance but more of the light versus light balance in coop. It would be nice if everyone who played could have a equal challenge and fun no matter what unit they played as. As I have played MANY rotd game and with diff units I have seen that some are less effective or some are too powerful. Some of the main issues are: Pfer can vet a lot more easily then other dorfs. Arcs start off shooting so slow and they can't really vet to well unless they all share a hellfire bow. Sixteen arcs on this map doesn't really help, they seem to just cause a lot of friendly fire, mb if you could just taunt them it would help(like Lothar posted). The electro is only effective against ghols, pigs, and ghosts. I just wanted to being some of this to your attention. If you don't think any of that needs changing then I'll keep my peace and be glad that rotd is no longer going to be a 'beta'. If I remake a version of Rotd, I'll call it something else of course and thanks for allowing it!
I thought I spotted you for a second earlier on HL, but I turned away for a sec and jOO were gone. :oO
Good points one and all and these are things I have been trying to refine as I get frustrated/bored trying to fix scripting issues. Ill look further into things though just to make sure. ;o)
EDIT::
OK,
RotD 081205 to RotD 081405 Omni.zip is now up and ready for testing. This patch addresses multiple issues so give it a good work out please. :o)[/color]
Edited By GHOST® on 1124054704
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 12:24 am
by Subzero
Woot found a bug well it happened once. Suicide at start and when all the pf balloons came on screen it crashed
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 12:32 am
by Subzero
Okay maybe it isnt the balloons maybe it was the balloons destroying all of the morts balls at once
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2005 1:40 pm
by Gleep FoG
LOL Sub, trying to crash stuff, if Mazz, Mort, and pfer all die and crash that isn't a bug! It's a feature to save minutes of your life trying to beat Rotd without them.
As for the changes, I like the electro's extra power and less mana needed, but need to see how he does when vetted. I think the mana pus bows are a little too much. I'm not sure if you decreased the initial attack recovery of the arcs or not, but that would be all that u needed to do with them. I like that you put demos instead of strids for having less than 8 players. Other suggestions would be to have 1 of each or be able to taunt for the others. We got a few ppl to upgrade and play but was getting late for me, hopefull tonight we can test some more. Getting close to done GHOST! Thanks for making this awesome map!
Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:59 pm
by Wismuth
Since Ghost is resuming work on RotD, here are some issues with the plugin that drive me nuts (and are still present in RotD 081705). They are tags that should be removed because they override the myth defaults:
observer constants : observer physics constants
string lists : STLI Internal Difficulty
Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 3:23 pm
by Subzero
Oh haven't tested it in newest rotd or haven't noticed it since newest patch but locks could attempt to pick up the smoke from the fireballs though i could never manage that before smoke ran out
Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:25 pm
by Soulblaster
Greetings!! Ghost, I've been working on a map project using basically 80% of rotd script, and a lot of diff tags and projects. The 1st beta of the map i decided to call Armageddon Universe is ready, and i believe it is a very creative half sequel to the best among many maps ever made..
Well, in true i'd like to ask you and magma crew permission to use the script and tags, and at the same time invite you guys to help me test it. Since magma is the soul of myth map making community, your help would be more than awesome.
Thx, Soulblaster
Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2005 1:40 pm
by GHOST®
[color=DFC99B]
Soulblaster wrote:Greetings!! Ghost, I've been working on a map project using basically 80% of rotd script, and a lot of diff tags and projects. The 1st beta of the map i decided to call Armageddon Universe is ready, and i believe it is a very creative half sequel to the best among many maps ever made..:)
Well, in true i'd like to ask you and magma crew permission to use the script and tags, and at the same time invite you guys to help me test it. Since magma is the soul of myth map making community, your help would be more than awesome.
Thx, Soulblaster
Greetings and Thanks !!
You have my permission and blessings, though not really needed, as I have no problem with anyone using anything I`ve ever created AND released. I just ask 2 things,
1: Please wait until RotD is *officially* released, which will be VERY sOOnâ„¢.
2: That you verify with Iron Duke that its ok to reuse his new High Resolution Units, if you decide to use these, that I`ve incorporated into the latest build of RotD.
ie: Rabican, Watcher, Berzerks, Heron, Mortar Dwarf, Thrall, Trow, Wights, Shade, Ghols, and Myrmidon/Forsaken.
As for testing your plugin, the best I can offer is to help you understand the RotD script youre modifying and to suggest that you upload your plugin to UDogs HL and inquire for help testing it there. Also, its a good place to come if you have questions concerning mapmaking or scripting or anything else Myth related.[/color]
Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 3:29 am
by girm
Just finish this already !! !
Before you disappear again.
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:44 pm
by The Elfoid
It's out. Check news page.
Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:44 pm
by Horus
Hmm, ok just tried the released version and I have a number of queries.
1. Are the thrall and Herons (most of the light stuff and some of the dark) meant to be so big, they seem to dwarf the starting mauls and ghasts by a head and a shoulder...
Ok well that was the only query...