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Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:20 pm
by Doobie
Ahh, but that 450 lbs of meat, is worth more nutritionally than the an equivalent 450 lbs of grain!
Although, I don't know that it would be equivalent to the 2700 lbs of grain you could produce with the same resources...
You're right, when you take into account the grain needed to feed the animal, it seems hard to believe that you'd kill more animals as a vegetarian.
It's an interesting idea though, most vegetarians have more blood on their hands than they would like to think.
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:42 pm
by vinylrake
I think you could safely say that "Humans living in an industrialized society have more blood on their hands than they would like to think" and leave it at that.
Seriously, other than people who like to pose in online gaming forums how many people like to think that our belts and shoes are made from the skin of animals, and like to think of all the gore and blood and circumstances that led up to their tasty McMurder burger, or that their medicines are tested by torturing cute fuzzy animals, or that the byproducts of the factories needed to produce all our comforts and toys are toxic waste that kills hundreds of thousands of animals?
No need to single out vegetarians, while I am not one myself I do respect their attempt to limit the bloodshed their actions are responsible for.
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:44 pm
by Doobie
It's probably worth mentioning that free range animals are raised on land that is typically not friendly to cultivation of food crops. So, in that specific case, it would seem that less harm is done and good use if made of land that would otherwise go unutilized.
In fact, it's been said that if the whole world switched to vegetarianism we'd all starve to death, but that may be tied in with the whole organic food craze (which obviously leads to far lower yeilds).
Of course, I hunt my own meat, so really none of this applies to me personally, I just like to get people riled up. 
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:51 pm
by Doobie
Agreed, the vast majority of people are willfully ignorant as to how food gets on their plate, or clothes on their body.
I only single out vegetarians because many of them make the claim that they aren't responsible for the deaths of animals when in fact, the practices used to cultivate and harvest the grains and vegetables they eat leads to the death of many an animal
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:11 pm
by A-Red
Doobie wrote:Agreed, the vast majority of people are willfully ignorant as to how food gets on their plate, or clothes on their body.
I only single out vegetarians because many of them make the claim that they aren't responsible for the deaths of animals when in fact, the practices used to cultivate and harvest the grains and vegetables they eat leads to the death of many an animal
Yes, I also think that a one-armed Watcher model would be nifty to have.
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:23 pm
by Doobie
I'd shoot the one-armed watcher and cook him up on my BBQ!
It's good for me and good for the environment!
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:54 pm
by Horus
:Still of topic:
Vegetarians like to through around the "there's no blood on their hands" quote, but what about the plants that have to die for them to eat?
Allot of Vegetarians will not drink cows milk, but still they're happy to munch on some poor carrot while it suffers being eaten alive.
If they really really wanted to "have no blood on their hands" they should eat fruit and plant the seeds (Fruit = Grows on the plant to encourage animals to eat the fruit and redistribute the seeds. Vegetables = In most cases is the plant itself).
This doesn't mean that I disagree with animal testing, and other cruelities being wrong (including eating meat),
And yes I do eat meat.
Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:04 pm
by Industry
Doobie you wouldn't need to kill the whole Watcher. You could just recover his missing arm and grill that up. In fact if we could find the Head's body you could grill that up too, since The Head can clearly live without it.
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:16 pm
by Doobie
hehe, good point.
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:38 pm
by Gleep
So anyway about cows eating grain and all that jazz. I live in Arkansas where there are very many cows, and um they eat grass. Not the cereal grains we eat, just plain ol grass, that would just be growing there if the cows weren't even there. Nice cattle farms like a black angus farm down the road, use higher quality grasses or legumes, but not anything like what was mentioned in an earlier post. I'm a meateater but sometimes I debate with myself the morality of eating meat.
In addition, farmed crops also tend to use more nutrients from the soil, thus the need fro crop rotations, which can be countered or reduced by a lot of fertilization, which can be provided by of all things, cow manure.
The downside of cattle is the amount of methane produced. Some scientists even think this has increased the global warming trend. If only we could use that to power our vehicles instead of gasoline. Darn $2.80 a gallon here for premium.
BTW what sequences did that 1-armed watcher have?
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:04 pm
by William Wallet
Gleep wrote:BTW what sequences did that 1-armed watcher have?
If we're talking about the Wod one, Welly sent a screenshot to me ages back. I'm pretty sure they're the same basic sequences as Iron's, if they don't look the same they probably serve the same purpose. I can't recall.
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:50 pm
by Welly (@home)
William Wallet wrote:Gleep wrote:BTW what sequences did that 1-armed watcher have?
If we're talking about the Wod one, Welly sent a screenshot to me ages back. I'm pretty sure they're the same basic sequences as Iron's, if they don't look the same they probably serve the same purpose. I can't recall.
To all the guys out there looking for the wod Watcher: not just me, but some of the others here at this forum (and possibly, though I can't remember for sure, some who are posting in this thread) were leaked wod's 1-armed.
One of them, not me, will be the one who re-leaks it, if anyone does. I can't even resend the pict to the folks who asked for it here until Monday, when I'm back @ college.
As for the sequences of wod's watcher, he had 2 idles (one with the sword pointing out, held down at his side, and the other with the sword at neck level, over his back or something), 2 subsequent transitions, at least 2 sword swings (the two I vividly recall are not "powerful" looking, Sauron-from-LOTR swings, but are much better than the hilariously feeble attack than wod's leix pirate sword attack), a walking sequence, and a magic attack that looks more like he's tilting his head back in laughter. It didn't have a headshot so I made one for it using the mad 31337 skills I learned to make the dirigible. headshot.
He didn't have a dying sequence, totally lacked shadows, and also didn't even have harddeath body parts, so instead Wod included the imported TFL watcher-statue parts. When I Feared it, I naturally just made him freeze up and threw the statue bits into a death prgr just like TFL's watcher.
.. will let you guys know when I'm back, so I can remake the screens for whomever wants it.
Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 9:08 am
by William Wallet
I'm going to change the subject. I'm glad you guys know how to have a civilised conversation about vegetarianism. Most times whenever I bring this up, it turns into a ridiculous and utterly wasteful melee between two sides that have valid points, yet invalidated their arguments with emotive crapola.
Hey - about the Watcher, seriously, one of you plonkers leak it already. If it's as unfinished as it sounds, ahah, then it prolly won't get used anyway. But man, Myth is on the way out , so we might as well upload everything we got. Heck yeah. I want to throw up everything I've made in Myth, but Cid won't tell me the secret of Hotline so it must wait.
But now really, I don't want to paint out the Watcher's arm. Making that cavalry unit was time-intensive enough. Cid will do it for me.
Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:34 am
by :) Da Cid (: McCl
William Wallet wrote:Cid will do it for me.
It's funny, because even though everytime you wanted me to do something you said "Do you want your name in the credits?" I didn't do half the stuff anyway. And I still got my name in the credits (of Freedom II).
Oh well. Off I go then.
-TGP-
Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:52 am
by William Wallet
Chop chop.