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Defacto wrote:There is not a single reason why captains should be able to control units that do not belong to them. If they want to control them, detach them. There are many MANY reasons, as I stated above, why captains should not be able to control other's units the captain does not own.

I agree that click-drag should NOT BY DEFAULT select all a team's units, and should only select the captain's units, BUT in the fury of intense melee, the extra step difference between option-click-drag to select team units then clicking to move units, vs click-dragging to select, pressing back slash to re-take control and THEN giving units orders to move could be the difference between life and death.

In other words, you say potaytoe, I say potahto.

Yes we both agree that band selecting units that dont belong to the captain should be turned off in game. (an option or not it matters little)

That was the problem my friend allways had. He played cira 1997-1999 BTW It screws me up with the hitting enter, to select my units if a few teamates are mixed in, because like you said, maybe there are units like dwarves or something on the screen as well that i dont want to select.

Defacto wrote:Yes we both agree that band selecting units that dont belong to the captain should be turned off in game. (an option or not it matters little)

this is where we disagree. I think there is HIGH value in giving a captain the _option_ of easily grabbing control of team units not currently assigned to him/her.

Defacto wrote: BTW It screws me up with the hitting enter, to select my units if a few teamates are mixed in, because like you said, maybe there are units like dwarves or something on the screen as well that i dont want to select.

I am not sure what you mean. When you press enter it doesn't select your teammates units - even if they are intermixed with yours, only your units are selected.

It seems like a solution that would please both of us would be to change the default behavior of unit selection when a captain click-drags so that only the captains units are selected, AND to make the current default click-drag behavior (select all team units) able to be invoked by a keypress-click-drag.

This solution would meet your request, and retain the option for captains to select team units if they actively chose to. If your object to keeping the current captain click-drag behavior in as an _option_ because you have a fundamental problem with the concept of the captain controlling units without detaching them first, then I think that's a larger issue and one that is a more fundamental change to how team games are played/captained.

use presets

not sure who you are talking to here zeph.

which aspect of the above features did you mean to suggest that presets would help with?

1) selecting just a player's units that are visible on the screen

2) selecting teammate's units

What i mea VR is that sometimes hitting enter will not help me, because i dont want to select everything on the screen. Something like, if i have a few teamates units mixed in with mine in battle, and i want to just select my warriors and archers, but my J man is allready en route to heal a dwarf thats red and being shot at, if i hit enter i will select them all and make the j man stop walking up to heal the dwarf. I cant just double click the warriors or archers because there is more then 1 unit type. And using presets would not help, because i would need to know ahead of time every combonation of presets i would need in the future. Even if i could use presets, it would take a lot longer to recall them and click around to tell people where to go, then it would to just band select only mine "the captains" units on the screen and not my teamates.

Its just a level of control myth allways lacked, that leaves me feeling that the control abillity required to play myth, is not fully realized. i.e. i dont have the tools needed to do the job required.

Defacto wrote:I cant just double click the warriors or archers because there is more then 1 unit type.

You can if you hold Shift.

This isnt streamlining anything though pyro, just adding more things to push and click to get the same result in more time.

I have a pretty standard "presets" setting. Preset 1 is ranged artillary (souls or archs etc), preset 2 is melee (all of it), preset 3 is explosive.... preset 4 is magic.... however if you dont have a lock or you dont have a dwarf those two can swap spots... basically 3 and 4 are power units that are likely to fuck up your own team too. And preset 5 is for any special melee I might want to seperate out as a single unit from my group of Melee, like a trow or FG or HGH. I usually group Jman with Melee but healer could always be assigned to 5.

If you go with a constant scheme like this for presets, regardless of the mesh you're on, you know how to set your presets based on generalization. It's worked great for me for years and years, but I mostly play coop and solo so maybe it's not quite as effective in MP...

Multiplayer is an insane clickfest.

Don't get me wrong, I've played mutli before. And in your scenario, my system of presets would totally work out fine for you. Mixed group of units and you want to get your archs and warrs to attack "cmd 2 click. cmd 1 click." done in 2 clicks... hardly a clickfest for that

you arent taking into account enough senarios guys. How can i use presets to select warriors and archers if i dont want to select all my wars because maybe an enemy or enemys are trying to attack or is attacking my dorf? Or some of my wars are engaged in melee with the enemy. So i dont want to move all my wars in this senario. I cant use band select because me teamates units are mixed in with mine as well. Trust me we need better finite control over things like this, to streamline myth's control and bring it to the next level. myth currently does not have all the tools required by its gameplay. I feel like a caveman trying to fix and jet engine with a stone tool.

Why would a caveman need to fix a jet engine?

Because he has a fighter jet, and uses it to shoot down flying dinosaurs for dinner DUH!

Hitting enter always worked fine for me, in the case of mixed up allied units. *shrug*