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Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 7:04 am
by Lugas
toffuuu wrote:No it doesn't, not if its a "PowerPC app" and since its that it has to use "Rosetta" which is alot like "Emulation" it may look good and all, but it be better if it is a Universal App, where the installers has both the Universal or Intel, and the PowerPC App
Rosetta is designed to give Carbonised (that's Mac OS X) applications the best performance it can give. I'm fine with Myth 2 remaining PowerPC native as long as it isn't problematic.
There really shouldn't be problems for the following reasons:
1) Myth 2 was originally designed for PowerPC processors that predate the G3. It is a fairly old game and hasn't changed much over Project Magma's updates.
2) Myth 2 runs perfectly fine of my G3 iMac. I think G3 is beyond the recommended requirements for Myth 2 when it was released.
3) Rosetta only has problems with games that have been made from scratch since 2003 or 2004. Myth 2 was made in about 1997 (correct me if i'm wrong), so it is an old game. Rosetta has been known to run old PowerPC games "Perfectly".
4) Please do not pressure us to make a Universal Build. 1.5.2 isn't finished, and that is PowerPC native only. Many of us can't help to making a UB because very few of us even have access to an Intel iMac. Probably becuase we aren't ready to move to Intel. And to make an Intel build, you would proably need a PowerPC and an Intel.
Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 3:32 pm
by toffuuu
With the 4th one, no, as far as I understand ya can use either or to make a universal build, as long as you have the understanding as to how, and also I do understand how so few are doing this project, all I'm asking is that it be considered, even if it takes along time... I just think this game should continue on with todays and future hardware that comes out.... But thats just my Opinion... Also If I can be of some help, I'd be glad to, however i have never made an app let alone a game, other than some of the simpler stuf like Gtypist and so on, if some one here would be willing to guide me, as to how to make a game, and Im not sure if Xcode Tools is also needed, but I do have that as well... just need some guidance... 
P.S. Also look at the poll, what you said (Lucas) is exactly the opposite of what most including I want...
Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 7:06 pm
by iron
Actually, Myth wasn't designed for PowerPC chips as the same code ran on Macs, Windows and Linux. The platform-specific part for MacOS has undergone huge changes during our updates. TFL was made in 97, Myth 2 in 98/99.
Rosetta runs old games perfectly? That I'd have to see to believe, as the non-intel Classic environment does really badly running many old games. Try running 1.3 of TFL or Myth 2 under classic - for me it gets the screen setup totally wrong and is unplayable.
Pressure "us" to make a UB? Not sure where you're coming from there. CIK and Myrd would be the guys who'd develop it and they're well aware of what's involved and how important it is, so its best to leave any decisions to them.
BTW Point, good to see an old Wallstreet again - I used to have one back in the day 
Posted: Wed May 24, 2006 10:30 pm
by William Wallet
Lugas wrote:Please do not pressure us to make a Universal Build.
Woah, when did Lugas join the team?
(bring out the champaggen, sotto Zapp Brannigan)
Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 6:48 am
by Lugas
William Wallet wrote:Lugas wrote:Please do not pressure us to make a Universal Build.
Woah, when did Lugas join the team?
(bring out the champaggen, sotto Zapp Brannigan)
What I meant was, I wouldn't like CIK and Myrd to be pressured into making an Intel build. I'm fine with it remaining PowerPC as long as it isn't problematic! I cannot explain my thoughts any further about an Intel build. Not Problematic means no Intel Build needed in the near future. If Myth 2 was problematic on Intel Core Duo iMacs, Mac Minis and MacBooks, would it be the same on the lesser Mac Mini's "Intel Core Solo"?
Also, I don't think I meant to force myself into the team. I wouldn't really be able to help, because I have little experience in map making. And my new map I'm making aims to get feedback on my experience and to hopefully expand my experience and creativity. I'm way too preoccupied with my own Myth Maps.
Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 7:52 am
by iron
Its programming, which is different to mapmaking. Some people have reported problems with Intel, which will be investigated in due time & I'm sure CIK/Myrd will make the appropriate decision. Removing the reliance on Carbon is a considerable task and only something that can be attempted if you want to do it, not reluctantly because someone's pressured you.
Anyway, atm the focus is on 1.5.2. After that, we'll see what happens.
Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 12:24 pm
by Lugas
But what about the lesser Mac Mini's "Intel Core Solo"? Would that only perform less because its only one Intel Chip and the Duos are two?
Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 8:16 am
by CIK
Myth II does run with a very playable frame rate on Core Duos and maybe even on a Solo. Several people have reported that you get burst of lag all the time. This is consistent with the what other Game Developers have reported on Apple's GameDev mailing list for other games that use similar API calls that we are using in Myth. Look for some news on the Intel stuff in the near future. :;):
Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 11:29 am
by Lugas
Aye. I think it would work fine with Mac Mini 1.5 Ghz Intel Core Solo, except for one thing: Mac Minis (and the 13-Inch Black and White MacBooks) have a dodgy replacement for Video Ram. They "borrow" VRAM from the System. This makes Mac Minis a very bad choice for a regular gamer. I don't know much about the new Mac Minis and MacBooks when it comes to gaming but a very interesting article gives a lot of information. Also, because of the lack of VRAM, they need more and more memory.
Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:46 pm
by TarousZars
Rosetta is and always will be the bottleneck for the Current version of Myth on a Intel Processor. The integrated vram should be plenty good for myth. But Rosetta's imperfect emulation which leads myth to "get burst of lag all the time. " is the reason we need an update. There is no rush yet however, as I haven't gotten one yet. =-).
Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:31 am
by William Wallet
Lugas wrote:Also, I don't think I meant to force myself into the team.
Hahha, I was just pokin' fun Lugas. 
Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:55 am
by Lugas
Ok... I didn't mean to force myself into joining. I thought I upset people by saying "us"...
What I think would be a good idea is anyone with an Intel Mac of any kind to try Myth 2 and see how it works. Perfomance may vary on the different Intels. I only think we have information on the 20-inch 2.0 Ghz Intel Core Duo iMac. Does anyone here have an Intel Mac apart from the above? Has anyone tried with a 15-17 inch MacBook Pro yet? And what about the black and white 13-inch MacBooks and Mac Minis Intel Core Solo/Duo?
Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:05 am
by Lugas
I think knowing how it performs on A Mac Book Pro will be impotant to know. Has anyone seen how beefed up and loaded and armed the 17-inch MacBook Pros are!
Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:21 am
by CIK
Lugas wrote:Has anyone seen how beefed up and loaded and armed the 17-inch MacBook Pros are!
Yes I have :;):
Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:45 am
by toffuuu
I have the MBP, 15.4 @ 1.83GHz I have played Myth II on it and well its good, just wish that there were more resolutions avalible to it when you start it up when that dialog box comes up, the only resolution i get is the 640-480 or whatever one that is... so I just end up using window mode, and then using the prefs in the game to get it as big as I would like it... but still i think an big improvement will and would happen if it was universal, but I know, the ppl that are making the updates are busy, just hope they do keep in mind for the soon future.