tain.totalcodex.net

Im doing my part! Are you doing yours?

Because it's based on doesn't mean it is!

SB=/=TFL=/=M3!

Renwood wrote:PPE and rake let me see... you seem to not pay very close attention at all....how many times have i told you that ALL THE MYTH GAMES ARE BUILT ON THE TFL ENGINE/CODE?

Twice I think. But I might have missed one or two. All caps makes my brain kind of glaze over. And if you said it in that long post where you quoted pages of info about Take 2 to justify your unauthorized use of a copyrighted product name/game franchise, I could have missed it.

Renwood wrote:ive said that sooo many times and you NEVER EVER RESPOND to that simple fact. you choose to ignore it evrey time.
so by your own logic myth 2 isnt a new game and myth 3 isnt a new game.
half-life (quake 1 engine modded) isnt a new game and half life 2 episode 1 isnt a new game and also half life 2 episode 2 isnt a new game and half life 2 episode 3 wont be a new game if we follow your logic of what a "new game" is.

Myth 2 is definitely NOT a new game. Myth 2 is what Myth I would have been had Bungie had time to finish Myth I AND if the base level hardware of that time period had allowed graphics-engine-straining-features like fire.

Myth 3 may be _based_ on Myth 1, but imo it is substantially different enough to be called a new game. Perhaps a purely subjective opinion, but when something is changed so much that it doesn't look,act or _feel_ like the same game, I'll grant that it's a different game.

Renwood wrote: Even Mnet has NO Agreement with take 2 so WE ALL do myth related things because A. Take2 lets us or B because they dont care at all about myth stuff.

There is a very clear usage policy regarding the use of Myth II game elements which has shipped with every version of Myth II ever sold, including (as far as I know) the currently shipping "Myth Worlds" game set on Take2's web store. There is a difference between using Bungie content within certain parameters to create something for the game, and taking the proprietary unlicensed game engine itself, modifying it, and using it as the basis of a sales pitch for a product you intend to market. I understand you are wishing that some other company will see the game and then buy the rights from Take2 so your game can be commercially available (obviously no company is going to buy the rights to Myth 2 just to give away the game for free) - BUT imo that is quite unrealistic. You mention Valve? Have you played Half Life 2 - a game they released several years ago? No way they are going to see a 2D game with tiny pixel images and say "I gotta HAVE that game!" I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but reality is a bitch sometimes.

Renwood wrote: When i say "new myth game" what i mean is

A. ALL NEW CAMPAIN (much like myth 2 and myth 3 did)
B. ALL NEW STORY (much like myth 2 and myth 3 did)
C. AS MANY ALL NEW UNIT MODELS AND 3D building MODELS AS WE CAN GET (much like myth 2 and myth 3 did)
D. New Musical score (much like myth 2 and myth 3 did)
E. All new 2D art and 3D art (much like myth 2 and myth 3 did)
F. Since Magma WASNT going to make anything after 1.6 (or so many of us thought) like i said before i had "a few" things added to a build.
Mainly as myrd said the increased veiw distance for certain maps that we have that needed it and a feature that Exports the stained cratered, burnt and bloody colormap after a game.
G. A BUNCH OF NEW WEAPONS, MAGIC AND ABILITYS FOR UNITS TO ADD TO GAMEPLAY OPTIONS

YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PLAY OUR STUFF IF YOU DONT ALLREADY OWN MYTH 2 SB. you think it wouldnt work with older builds, but it does just fine. people on 1.5.1 played with us. only thing is since 1.5.1 has no inventory switching for units that option wasnt there for anybody else on 1.6 to use during the game.

Thank you for the clarification, that is the first clear definition I have seen of what Myth IV will be. I am greatly looking forwards to playing it.

Renwood wrote: so Rake you know far less about MYTH programming then you think you do.

I think if you pay attention to what I wrote, I said that I understand that it works with all the versions that 1.6 is compatible with BECAUSE YOUR BUILD IS THE 1.6 BUILD WITH A FEW NEW FEATURES. We agree. Before you clarified what is and is not going to be in Myth 4 and you said you needed C++ programmers it sounded like you were going to be making more changes to the code. It is my opinion, which is probably shared by anyone who's ever coded more than a 'hello world' program (developers feel free to disagree) that 2 seperate groups of developers/individuals making changes to the same code independantly of each other are unlikely to produce something that will be compatible with each for very long into the future. I could of course be very wrong about this. But I don't think so. You have since clarified that you AREN'T going to be making further modifications, and that your code changes were made by a Magma developer so that's not really a concern I have any longer.

Renwood wrote:so rake please pull the RAKE out of your butt and lighten up dude ~8^)

Very clever, I was going to get offended at your comment but then you put that little smiley face and completely disarmed me. Now I just want to give you a hug.

Renwood wrote:If you care so much about myth rake, why dont you still make stuff for it?

I guess the hundreds of hours I've spent over the past few years writing the code for and collecting and editing content for the Mything.org site with information on over 100 Myth related applications/mapmaking tools, links to 150+ still alive Myth related sites, readmes, reviews, descriptions for 2000+ maps and plugins for Myth I,II & III, combing the old Myth news sites to create a timeline of Myth news with over 350 events, creating a comprehensive Myth dictionary, and a Myth community history wiki don't count as "still making stuff" for Myth?

Do some detective work before you make insinuations that make you look like a juvenile moron

Renwood wrote:maybe do a tiny bit of detective work guys and stop just posting on projectmagma forums and coming up with negative speculations.

Your website wasn't up until THIS WEEK. And until today you refused to answer really simple questions about what your "Myth 4" project entailed. You created the speculation because you refused to be straightforward and tell the truth when asked. Don't like it? Try being direct next time when someone asks you a question.

Renwood wrote:Respond to what i have stated this time rake.....unlike all the OTHER times.

Do you know how to read? What the hell do you think I was doing? If you have something you want ME to answer, use my name and ask me directly, or do you expect me to use the same magical powers of intuition I was supposed to use to figure out what "Myth 4" was to figure out when you are talking to me?

Renwood wrote:now cant we all play nice and blow each other with dorfs like civilized Mythers? ~8^)

If you don't stop using that blamming smiley face after you insult people or make insinuations about them I am going to stop trying to be polite and enthusiastic about your little project.

[EDIT: ^^^^ What he said ^^^^]

lol.... all this cuz you put myth 4 back in the title .....

I told you months and months ago having that in
the title was lame and I didnt want t
to help support that ...

I think its clear that one we al
all look forward to your creation and two that
myth 4 in the title is a huge mistake that gets
nothing but bad pr and people upset...

fix it and devote your time to the project instead
of defending a title and putting out flames...

simple...

Hmmm the TFV thread on playmyth forums got upto like 47 pages or something. This could go on a while judging by the participants.

p.s. hi ren, you need to produce more than just a tagset (which gets updated every week it seems), a site and lenghy rambling posts that really don't answer half the questions asked if you want support. Look at TFV, 3-4 years of development there and no impending plug.

p.p.s. If you have to have myth 2 installed + use myth2's exe, its not a new game, just a fancy plugin

Green Berets used the same application as Myth II and was technically its own game (sold as such), despite the changes being only to tag files. Many FPS games also use a core engine, and have different content, and are marketed as separate games. Counter-strike was originally just a mod for Half-Life, for instance.

However, you can't really market something as its own game unless you have permission from the owners of the game engine to do so... which is the main issue here (along with other related issues, such as using Myth II warriors, the Myth name, etc...). Renwood seems optimistic about being able to resolve this by demoing his work to game companies... Will it work? Who knows.

Personally, I think naming it "Myth 4" before getting a blessing from Take2 is going in the wrong direction, if you later want to pitch this to Take2. They won't like it very much that you're naming it as a sequel to their game without any kind of "OK" from them, I think.

Im doing my part! Are you doing yours?

OK, I really don't have a time nor will to read all this thread but I want to say what I think:

Thanks to you Ren if it's a great plug, but please don't call it MYTH 4

That's all what I wanted to say, even if it's offtopic.

Yea, call it Myth 5 : ) ( I'm not joking, TFV is "Myth 4" or may be in futere - of course if The Wind Age will be finished sooner then TFV will be Myth 5 ) Its been so many years that I doubt that any1 still belive in "real" ( by real I mean "made by Bungie" ) Myth IV anymore. We can make petition to Bungie of course ( I am definitly pro ) and there is something like 99,9% chance that they will say "no way - we arent buying myth back" and calling next +25 levels campaigns Myth 4, 5 or 8 will be not a problem anymore, not @ all...

Tireces wrote:Yea, call it Myth 5 : ) ( I'm not joking, TFV is "Myth 4" or may be in futere - of course if The Wind Age will be finished sooner then TFV will be Myth 5 ) Its been so many years that I doubt that any1 still belive in "real" ( by real I mean "made by Bungie" ) Myth IV anymore. We can make petition to Bungie of course ( I am definitly pro ) and there is something like 99,9% chance that they will say "no way - we arent buying myth back" and calling next +25 levels campaigns Myth 4, 5 or 8 will be not a problem anymore, not @ all...

No, TFV can't be called Myth 4, because my next project is going to be called Myth 4. You and Ren can fight over the Myth 5 tag.

*** Really wishes Tir wouldn't call TFV "Myth 4" ***

Ok, lets call it Myth 5 then
Hehehe Hours, isnt life strange ? Few years ago you called yourself TFV a Myth4 and I was bit sceptic - and now we have switched sides

But allrighty, I guess that something like "Last petition to Bungie" may come soonish so stay tuned men.


Vinyl, sry but I have already reserved "Myth VI" and 'VII" for The Nine's future plugins ( first coming around 2017, 2nd only few years later ) so you can have "Myth VIII" and "Myth IX";)

cheers

Tireces wrote:Ok, lets call it Myth 5 then
Hehehe Hours, isnt life strange ? Few years ago you called yourself TFV a Myth4 and I was bit sceptic - and now we have switched sides

Approximately 5 years ago, and TFV didn't have the name TFV back then. M4 was a placeholder name to gain interest, but I never said TFV would be a new game.

Here is a screenshot of what became the TFL engine from back in 1992. Some of you might find this interesting.
http://pid.bungie.org/IMGmakingofPID.html

Beware that a cavalier attitude towards intellectual property would harm your chances of employment in the games industry. Games companys are always affraid of employees leaking material to warez crews. Pitching an unauthorised "Myth 4" to a company with that website as a reference could alienate a games company. As it is, I think it could be endangering Projectmagma by perceived implication.

Take a look at these screenshots of Halo 3
http://au.media.xbox360.ign.com/media/7 ... mgs_1.html
The graphics in Halo 3 are an entire generation behind what some game development houses are working on right now. Modern boxed releases can involve hundreds of employees and are now big business.

You would not be pitching a mostly finished game with your plugin, because there is little in the way of plugin content that you could create for something as out of date as the Myth 2 engine that a games company could reuse in a new game. Likewise, the Myth 2 engine is so antiquated and buggy that it would be easier to substitute it entirely. No games company wants to mess with a sickly 15 year old codebase. Myth 2 was graphically behind the curve when it was released in 1998.

The Myth 2 engine is so out of date that it is computing history. The Myth 3 engine is not much better. No games company is likely to want to take on either when there are cheaper alternatives
http://www.garagegames.com/products/torque/tge

Myth 2 and Myth 3 were both commercial failures. Myth 2 sold about 1/3rd as many copies as TFL, and Myth 3 sold so much more poorly that Take2 probably never cleared its initial inventory. We know what subsequently happened to Bungie and MumboJumbo. It would be hard to convince any company to create a 4th Myth game when if it were to sell twenty times as many copies as the 3rd it would still be a bigger commercial failure than the 2nd.

For a new commecial game to be associated with the Myth franchise would be a cost, a liability and a legal encumberment. For a new commercial game to be released now or in a couple of years time to be based on a sprite-based game engine from 1998 is laughable and if you pitch this you will be laughed at. Games companies do not base things on faith, they have bills to pay, and shareholders and lawyers to keep happy. Companies that ignore commercial realities go out of business.

If you want to be hired into the gaming industry on the basis of showcasing your modding abilities, a decade old sprite-based game is not the most promising choice. Myth's graphics and technologies are very primitive compared with what current game development would demand of you. Game developers may hire modders on rare occasions, but a plugin for an old sprite-based game is very unlikely to be a perceived as a good enough showcase of your talents to get you hired.

If you want to create a new "Myth" game based on that franchise, you're probably out of luck no matter what you do.
If you want to create a new Myth-like game, you should not encumber it with Take2's IP.
If you want that game to be free, you could use any one of an assortment of free game engines like the Aleph One or CrystalSpace ones.
If you want that game to be properterial, you could licence a cheap commercial game engine like Torque.

But good luck in whatever you decide.