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Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:15 pm
by Archer
I personally think bringing him back would be perfect, given that I utterly hate the idea of the Light winning out and breaking the cycle.
~J
Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 7:25 am
by The Elfoid
The Deceiver is 100% DEAD. In GURPS Myth it describes him as alive, I know but if you go to the GURPS Myth website it says that was an error and he is dead in reality.
Also, anyone notice that the Deceiver shows loyalty to the Cath Bruig Emperor? Not taking M3 into account since it isn't Bungie, he has followed Connacht, Balor (who IS Connacht) and Alric, all of whom were emperors. Perhaps Damas was his rival, fighting for the favour of Connacht?
Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 1:35 pm
by A-Red
The Elfoid wrote:Also, anyone notice that the Deceiver shows loyalty to the Cath Bruig Emperor? Not taking M3 into account since it isn't Bungie, he has followed Connacht, Balor (who IS Connacht) and Alric, all of whom were emperors.
I think with a guy like The Deceiver it's hard to say what he really wants. I mean, he's the Deceiver after all.
Still, it does seem that he had certain 'good guy' tendencies. Especially that little speech about 'the path to redemption' in the Shiver level.
He sure is dead, though.
A-Red
Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 2:36 pm
by The Elfoid
That speech could b a lie. I just don't like the way that GURPS Myth says 'The Deceiver most certainly was not loyal [to Balor] when he in fact followed him and his successor his whole life.
Posted: Thu Dec 09, 2004 6:40 pm
by Ama
well honestly, I'd hardly call GURPS Myth Canonical - it came from a time when sjgames had the idea that any franchise that could be licensed for cheap should be.
Also the errata came long after the bungie folk had anything to do with anything. (2002 when the book was published in 1999...)
On top of this the erratta doesn't even seem that convincing :
The Deceiver dies yet again in Myth: Soulblighter when the Shiver episode is played through, though not if the episode is "auto-victoried." The GM may choose to regard him as being dead in his campaign's timeline. He possesses the Binding Dream in addition to possibly possessing the Confinement Dream.
Died again. Can't be that perm a condition for him then now can it. Plus its even suggested optionally for GMs. I don't put much weight in this.
Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:06 am
by Archer
A-Red wrote:Still, it does seem that he had certain 'good guy' tendencies. Especially that little speech about 'the path to redemption' in the Shiver level.
I don't have the game with me offhand, but are you sure it isn't the path to retribution, not redemption?
~J
Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 12:19 am
by A-Red
Archer wrote:I don't have the game with me offhand, but are you sure it isn't the path to retribution, not redemption?
You're right. My bad.
A-Red
Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 1:18 pm
by The Elfoid
GURPS was made when bungie still owned the Myth games and also was licensed by them. It's official, like chimera.
Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:10 pm
by Archer
And so we are once again left with the question of why Myrdred calls Shiver Ravanna.
~J
Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 3:34 pm
by A-Red
The Elfoid wrote:GURPS was made when bungie still owned the Myth games and also was licensed by them. It's official, like chimera.
Wait, aren't YOU the one who keeps saying there are errors in it?
Anyway, just because Bungie allowed it to be published doesn't mean it's our Bible.
A-Red
Posted: Fri Dec 10, 2004 11:51 pm
by Archer
But it is. It is canon.
~J
Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:21 am
by Ama
The Elfoid wrote:GURPS was made when bungie still owned the Myth games and also was licensed by them. It's official, like chimera.
The errata however is dated 2003. The one you mention saying Myrdred is alive. That would be LONG after bungie was gone, right?
Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:23 am
by Ama
sorry, saying myrdred is dead.
Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 12:25 am
by Ama
(sorry for multiple post)
Also, bungie didnt have any hand in the actual Development. They are credited for playtesting. which can mean either that its accurate or not... No real reason to believe either way....
Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2004 1:00 am
by iron
The guy who wrote GURPS never played the level to the end, so he just assumed that the Deceiver lived. Also there's a comment in the script at the point where he dies that says "He's yours till he's dead", so it seems evident that he doesn't survive.
Though ... it has been theorized that as his death is way too unspectacular for a Fallen Lord's demise (especially given the example of Shiver) that he may have transferred his "essence" into Phelot & thus he still lives.