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Jon God wrote:... but if you disperse because of that, then all it would take is a few assholes to ruin anything. We don't pull up the roadways because some people crash on them.

When people crash, authorities and emergency personal block or slow down traffic. After things settle traffic always resumes. Protests and movements can be like traffic too. People crash all the time, and they get back on the road when they are ready.

The police may hold the power of the law, but the people hold power as well. They don't always know how to use it, though. One person is all it ever takes to start a fight, no matter which side you are on.

Pyro wrote:The police may hold the power of the law, but the people hold power as well. They don't always know how to use it, though. One person is all it ever takes to start a fight, no matter which side you are on.

While this is true, if the police attack protesters, it's easy for them to have the excuse that something was being done to provoke it. Where as, if a person attacked the cops, they can say the same thing. It's the cops words against random people's words.

Well like I said, if you want to avoid being "attacked", go home when you're asked. Like I said, I disagree that you have to stay after a riot breaks out to make any sort of point.

And lets be clear - the riot acts in most places support this as well. And no, those few "rowdy people" aren't going to follow around your movement just to start trouble so that the police have to break it up so that your views aren't heard... that's an absurd hypothesis support by no facts whatsoever.

Anyways I think we'll have to agree to disagree here. Our views are not actually that dissimilar, just I tend to default to obeying the police while some of you claim that willful disobedience is necessary to accomplish your goals and yet that disobedience does not justify any action on the part of the police. I can see how you think that, but like I said, I respectfully disagree.

punkUser wrote:Well like I said, if you want to avoid being "attacked", go home when you're asked. Like I said, I disagree that you have to stay after a riot breaks out to make any sort of point.

And lets be clear - the riot acts in most places support this as well. And no, those few "rowdy people" aren't going to follow around your movement just to start trouble so that the police have to break it up so that your views aren't heard... that's an absurd hypothesis support by no facts whatsoever.

Anyways I think we'll have to agree to disagree here. Our views are not actually that dissimilar, just I tend to default to obeying the police while some of you claim that willful disobedience is necessary to accomplish your goals and yet that disobedience does not justify any action on the part of the police. I can see how you think that, but like I said, I respectfully disagree.

I believe that violence is not needed, however, if you go home as soon as someone asks, then you aren't going to have anything change.

Change does not happen over night. Going home after being told doesn't end a movement. Not going home after being told doesn't make change occur over night any faster either.

Think of it like this. If someone got sick with some dangerous contagious virus... can you be around this person when the authorities are setting up a quarantine? Yes. Do you take that risk and become part of the same problem? You could, but then you run the risk of getting hurt when it won't even accomplish anything. The few that ruin protests are the virus and the rest of the protesters are the potential victims. The cops try to quarantine the virus, and sometimes do a poor job causing collateral damage. Avoid the risk, regroup another day. Sometimes you have to hit the brakes before you can speed up again, or you end up crashing and losing your chance.

punkuser wrote:Yeah probably a bad example as Canada's split from Britain was quite non-violent

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... ns_of_1837

The point is that the British Empire was established by force by those who wished to rule others. And the 'deconstruction' was originated by those who were tired of being ruled by the English.

Although it would be a better world if love and reason were used instead of violence. And brother I wish that was the case.

But do you think that we live in that world right now? If you are a naturalist, you believe that progression came and comes through struggle and violence. Now please don't argue that, do a google search about the main ideas of evolution. If you believe in a religion, there are many different beliefs.

Also lest I cause confusion, one of the points in the video is that the protesters shown were peaceable.

EDIT: me english not good.

Omicron, I think you missed Punkuser's point. We all know violence has been a part of most movements, protests, revolutions, etc. We all know it would be nice if violence was never needed or used in any of them. We all know there will always be some people that will resort to violence to bring change or to prevent change.

However, there are ways to minimize violence in some places in the world. If there is trouble during a protest then you shouldn't stick around. Regrouping later or in some other place doesn't mean you lose the protest. It just minimizes the chances violence can hurt anyone on any side. If you can avoid violence, then do it. That was all punk was saying, to minimize it. There are ways to make change happen without violence. Not everywhere and not for everything, but the oppertunities exist in some situations thanks in part by movements made by others in the past.

Evolution and protests aren't the same. Protests involve higher level of intelligence while evolution involves only struggle and surviving. Protests sometimes are about having equal rights as others while evolution is about the best and luckiest surviving.

Can anyone see themselves making an Occupy mesh?

Time for the tear gas, batons and boots. I want to clean up the streets, Myth style.

William Wallet wrote:Can anyone see themselves making an Occupy mesh?

Time for the tear gas, batons and boots. I want to clean up the streets, Myth style.

The Manistee Paintball Challenge would be a good place to start for a teargas effect, it's got a great smoke-grenade effect which with a little damage could be turned into tear gas.

Not sure which modern city maps would work best for a mesh. The newer WWII maps look really nice but are set in wartime so have a lot of damaged buildings - maybe one of the ADT/Deadfall city maps?

New map. I love urban maps.

In terms of damage, postgame ... I'm really not one of the 99%. Usually it's closer to 1%.

Ah Pyro, I believe you missed my point. But who cares about the point of that reply?

The bigger point is that Point is not here to point us in the right direction. But seriously.

You all have opinions about protests! Good! That is great! Some of you should go run for election in you cities, counties, or townships! Or even higher! Put your opinions out there so like minded people have a voice in government! Why am I ending every sentence with an !, ?!

Go, tell your friends. V for victory, the victory of freedom against any form of tyranny over the mind of man.

http://www.infowars.com

Here is a google link

http://www.google.com/search?btnG=1&pws ... e+Republic

Ah, Alex Jones. "There's A Moron For Your Mind".

Clever! But don't bother to prove anyone wrong, just shove your head up your bum a little further.



Edit: fanny profanity

Patrice O'Neal, well known stand up comedian, is interviewed and talks about this stuff.

http://youtu.be/rFtFwzV3Ja4?t=5m35s