tain.totalcodex.net

Putting aside the issue of who I would trust with the Myth franchise, which is not an insignificant question, and putting aside the issue that people might not believe your project IS or could be a "new myth"(An ambitious solo campaign with new hi-res units? Sure, but is it going to be more unique than The Seventh God? or Jinn? or Green Berets? What gives it the right to be called the "new myth"?) I think when you are asking people to give you money in return for delivering a product - the question is really whether people can and should trust that the promises the project is making will be fulfilled. THAT is the question, not whether people believe in or want a "new myth" but whether or not there is a reasonable expectation that you guys can pull off a project of this magnitude.

To address that info, I haven't seen all the Myth 2 solo campaigns ever created, but I can't remember any original multilevel campaigns your group (together or seperately as individuals) have produced (and I can't find any on the tain). I am not disparaging the individual projects your team members have created on your own, or the amount of work your team put into your hi-res tagset that was supposed to be the foundation for the previous unsuccessful M4:TWindA project - but I am not aware of anything you guys have done that would lead me to believe you guys can pull off a project of this scope. Other than modifications of existing maps the only things I can find from you and Road here on the tain are unit mods or new units. Not being critical of your work, I can't do units - so I have a great deal of respect for the talent needed and the work that goes into making units - but unitmaking is just one skill, you need dozens of other skills for the project you are asking people to invest in. I haven't seen any evidence that you guys can even make a decent map from scratch and you want $450,000 and expect people to trust you can make a compelling 20 level solo campaign with a coherent, compelling storyline, original music, level artwork, etc. ? You are asking people to believe you 3 can pull this project off as a matter of faith but you really have no track record for anyone to base their trust on - that is kind of crazy.

If you had people on your team who have solid records of solo map/campaign building, and/or people who have produced high quality total conversions (not just units) then you'd have a much better case - as it is it sounds like you are asking people to 'believe' in your ability to complete this project just because you say you can do it. Which for any rational person isn't enough.

Let's be clear - my goals for the Myth 2 code-base here are to eventually get it to be free to distribute. As for the license and making more games, basing them on the Myth 2 engine - even updated as it has been - is ludicrous. Definitely keep making mods, but the notion that you could make any money these days re-selling Myth 2 engine + mod is silliness.

I'm all for seeing a totally new Myth game, but frankly that is a lot more work than just making maps and scripting. And it certainly isn't something to be done by volunteers.

You clowns want half a million to finish your unfocused craphole of a plugin? Renaming "Our Farewell" as "Myth 4" was dishonest enough. Trying to scam the internet out of half a million dollars to work on a horrible fanfic /3rd-party video game mod is a new low.

You are NOT a development team. Not even making a hi-rez wight. You're just fanboys playing with (Magma's) level editors.

I think I'll dig up my trowball local and work on a new campaign: "Myth 5: the Trowball Connection" and start a Kickstarter page for $650,000.00 (200K more because trowball is more original than "our farewell").

You guys make Brandonhex and Kirk seem like they are humble and have a tangible grasp of reality compared to yourselves.

toecutter wrote:You clowns want half a million to finish your unfocused craphole of a plugin? Renaming "Our Farewell" as "Myth 4" was dishonest enough. Trying to scam the internet out of half a million dollars to work on a horrible fanfic /3rd-party video game mod is a new low.

You are NOT a development team. Not even making a hi-rez wight. You're just fanboys playing with (Magma's) level editors.

I think I'll dig up my trowball local and work on a new campaign: "Myth 5: the Trowball Connection" and start a Kickstarter page for $650,000.00 (200K more because trowball is more original than "our farewell").

You guys make Brandonhex and Kirk seem like they are humble and have a tangible grasp of reality compared to yourselves.

toecutter is easily the most bitter human being in all of myth

toecutter wrote:You clowns want half a million to finish your unfocused craphole of a plugin? Renaming "Our Farewell" as "Myth 4" was dishonest enough. Trying to scam the internet out of half a million dollars to work on a horrible fanfic /3rd-party video game mod is a new low.

You are NOT a development team. Not even making a hi-rez wight. You're just fanboys playing with (Magma's) level editors.

I think I'll dig up my trowball local and work on a new campaign: "Myth 5: the Trowball Connection" and start a Kickstarter page for $650,000.00 (200K more because trowball is more original than "our farewell").

You guys make Brandonhex and Kirk seem like they are humble and have a tangible grasp of reality compared to yourselves.

LOL

toecutter wrote:I think I'll dig up my trowball local and work on a new campaign: "Myth 5: the Trowball Connection" and start a Kickstarter page for $650,000.00 (200K more because trowball is more original than "our farewell").

If you write a theme song for "Myth 5: TrowBall Connection" and have someone sing it in a Kermit the Frog voice to the tune of "Rainbow Connection" and feature it prominently in your introductory video (and preferabIy in-game as well) I will contribute to your project.

oogaBooga wrote:
toecutter is easily the most bitter human being in all of myth

So, is it me or the folks at Magma?

Who is ruining myth now?

I am fairly certain that you are well aware of my understanding of how games are made. Not just my quirky maps for Myth and Marathon, I mean my brief time spent actually in the employ of a game developer and my best friends' life-long careers working on ACTUAL game "DEVELOPMENT TEAMS". These were my college roommates back in the late 1980s (when most of you whining-for-entitlement types were born). My friends worked/work for Bungie, Microsoft, Monolith, Rockstar and Activision.

Just my bitterness? Nobody else was taken aback by your claim of a myth sequel in your "our farewell" tagset? My bitterness is real, and is different than other mythers who are just generally bitter about how their lives turned out so they troll and bait us while they wait in their mothers' basement for a mazz or 2-team PG/kg. My bitterness is always directed and has reason. Like... towards cheaters, scammers and anyone who does things just to be a dick

So, yes, of course I am bitter towards you and this kickstarter scam. Can you imagine if every awesome half-life or Halo 3rd party map had a kickstarter page asking for hundreds of thousands? No, wait, that is not fair. Imagone INSTEAD a couple Halo players, no great payers, who talk about an awesome map they are GOING to make, but never produce that map. SO then these two "mapmakers" spend an entire DECADE not finishing the map, changing what they say it will be and generally making nothing but EXCUSES. These two hypothetical Halo players who never actually complete a finished map then start a kickstarter page, claiming to be developing "HALO V" when in fact:
it is just a map,
for two versions ago Halo engine,
and they are NOT a development team,
just two guys with a Halo level editor,
AND THE "LOGO" for their "project" is THE BOX ART FOR HALO 3 with a 5 added with photoshop...


You have the balls to suggest Magma is a group of awful people with bad attitudes, yet you use all of the tools and engine updates they created.
How much of that half million is going to those who made the myth 2 engine updates, as well as fear and loathing from 1.4 to 1.8? None, right?
You think taking Bungie flavor art and toying around with it in photoshop/gimp/whatever along with adding a "4" to the Bungie Myth logo is some sort of professional grade game development?
I thought it was all an epic troll at first.

Ooga, you should really be ashamed, but I know your awareness of how others may see you often wanes to clinically interesting levels of disconnect.
You are truly, truly in the wrong here.
Level editing is NOT gave development. You do not have a "team".
Oh, wait. My vote is for the guys trying to scam innocent folks out of half a million bucks to bankroll a lifestyle that consists of making forum posts about how awesome a non-existent game is going to be, you know instead of getting a job. They want to spend ANOTHER decade passively fiddling with level/unit editors, not finishing anything, like they did before.

"and you want $450,000 and expect people to trust you can make a compelling 20 level solo campaign with a coherent, compelling storyline, original music, level artwork, etc. ?"

I think the vague assumption inherent in the pitch would be that the money would go towards getting people to do the stuff that they themselves cannot. Which would probably cover the 'original music', 'level artwork', so on and so forth.
--- Edit ---
Forgot about the license.

Sorry, just dropping in to comment on the most hilarious thing to happen in Myth history.

And don't chalk this up to "wow Da Cid is so bitter like everyone else", because our slightly volatile past (which you happen to share with pretty much everyone in the Myth community it seems) has nothing to do with what I think of this.

If you honestly thought when setting up your kickstarter that, in two weeks time, anonymous doners on the internet would give you $450,000 to make a Myth total conversion (one that, as has already been mentioned, has no higher significance over any other total conversion made in the past besides you calling it "Myth IV"), you are definitely the most deluded person on the planet.

I love Myth. Myth is an amazing game/franchise. I would love to see it come back in some way or form, even if it's under Take 2's production and Bungie has nothing to do with it. But anything you create under the guise of being Myth IV is not going to be close to an actual sequel. It's a total conversion in the Myth II engine (I presume).

I chuckle to myself when I see random indie kickstarters asking for half a million dollars, and you're asking for that much on a fucking PLUGIN for a game that hardly anyone plays anymore. I can't even imagine how you would use $450,000 in the creation of a Myth plugin. Where is that money going?

Kickstarter for video games works under the assumption that paying to help the production will secure a purchase (kind of a preorder) for when the game comes out, with higher tiers providing more bonuses. There is absolutely no way you have legal permission from Take 2 to sell your Myth plugin, and even if you did, I honestly doubt anyone would buy it.

Go program a new Myth engine, HD graphics, whatever the fuck you want. That is worth $450,000, not a freaking plugin in the Myth II engine. If you look at what most indie developers are making nowadays and you still consider yourselves game developers, I don't know what to say to you. You're Myth enthusiasts and map makers. Get over yourselves.

oogaBooga wrote: The only thing this proves to me is that the MAGMA community and perhaps some regular players don't believe in or want a new Myth. This community is actually not very significant in terms of who would be primarily funding it. The most funding would come from people who hadnt seen it before, or who had left the community long before magma had even taken over.

This proves to me that you have no idea how normal people think. That, or you're desperately trying to scam unknowing people out of money so you can get the rights to Myth. No one in their right mind would fund a plugin for a 12 year old game that they've NEVER PLAYED. That's not how the world works. You're running this campaign on nostalgia and you're expecting people with almost no connection to the game to fund your plugin.

It's ridiculous. The whole thing is insanely ridiculous. There are words to describe just how ridiculous this is, but I don't think they've ever been spoken in modern english, because nothing has ever been this ridiculous. I hope no one outside the Myth community hears about this, because it'll make us look insane.

I was going to write a huge text about this... But Toecutter and Da Cid already fully explained what I think about it, in his comments. You do not get confused. A plugin will always be a plugin. From there, you can call it whatever, but will remain a plugin.
You can see a masterpiece watching "The Seventh God" the author never sullied the name of Myth.

Maybe from now, those who develop plugins we should sell for $ 500,000 per plugin and rename it to: "Myth V The Fallen Dummy's" "Myth VI The Troll Age" "Myth VII The Happy Age" "Myth VIII The Fallen Parachutist"

We can also do fake myth games! ignoring all intellectual property laws and copyrights! Oh Yeah!!

to be fair I think the 450k they figured would buy the game license and pay for the programing of the new myth IV game engine... I think the graphic is just miss leading in that it says MYTH IV 1.8 I mean i hope so cuz it would be MYTH II v1.8 myth 4 the wind age which makes no sense. as a plugin for 1.8 myth the kickstart idea is rather lame calling it mythIV though to buy the license and revise the game engine it had potential if done right though by done right it would of been assembling a team that had some development experience... something that would of given it some credibility... its not like that cant be found simply by visiting udogs... though i guess those bridges were burned long ago by ren.

kinda of a shame if it was set for two weeks... I would hope it wasn't done with the idea that the myth community wouldn't find out and shed some light on the situation. the real shame i guess is the whole thing was done without a inclusive planning effort... which maybe could of breathed some new life into myth...

some one should let everyone know that most of the features shown are free in myth updates... all one needs to do is find a copy of myth II and play 1.72 and 1.8 versions.

William Wallet wrote:I think the vague assumption inherent in the pitch would be that the money would go towards getting people to do the stuff that they themselves cannot. Which would probably cover the 'original music', 'level artwork', so on and so forth.
--- Edit ---
Forgot about the license.

Don't forget the programming. From the initial (self-admittedly incomplete) video it appears that all the named additions to the game engine (textures, high res sprites/graphics, zoomable camera are all features already coded by Magma devs in official or unofficial versions of Myth II, but they claim to be adding new features to the game engine - and ooga has said they are going to be hiring the magma devs (or are willing to hire them by paying them enough for the magma devs to 'put their day jobs on hold') to change the engine to suit their desires for Myth IV. That's not an insignificant amount of money.

As far as I can tell, what this project basically is, is some decent unit makers/long time Mythers who have a dream to make a new Myth game and want to raise half a million dollars so they can pay developers to change the Myth II engine, pay mapmakers/musicians/composers/artists to make the new solo campaign, I assume they'll keep some of the cash for themselves as salary for managing the whole project, (I hope they aren't going to be taking any portion of the money raised for creating the new high-res units they've already completed (unless they are yet again re-creating their "Farewell Tagset"/"Myth 4 tagset") then they are going to pay Take Two for the rights to Myth so they can distribute this new total conversion and call it "Myth IV". Oh, and they will also be paying someone to setup their gameserver registration website and integrate it with the open source Bungie server and also to create some kind of stat tracking system and mod the game server to support their custom reward tags they are offering as incentives for giving. Although it's a crazy amount of money to expect to raise in 2 weeks and it's a positively insane amount to expect for a total conversion game mod, with all the peripheral related projects their "Myth IV" is going to require to be successful, I have a feeling that the $450,000 is going to get used up a lot faster than they expect. Especially as they start looking back to the community for free things and people start responding "wtf, you got a half million dollars to create "Myth 4" and now you expect me to make levels for you for free?"

Note, I don't think there's anything inherently critical in that summary, I am just trying to clearly identify what exactly it is that the ORR team (Ooga, Road & Renwood) would be doing, and what they would be hiring other people to do. If I've mistated or assumed incorrectly please let me know.



ps. I wish the project had more detail and I hope the team will supply some additional information without waiting until Ren finishes another video dog and pony show. Questions can be answered without a video. Questions like:

1. What soundtrack is being offered? One of the original Bungie soundtracks or a new Myth IV soundtrack? If the former do you have the rights or do you know that taketwo has the rights to redistribute the music outside of the game? If the latter, who do you have lined up to score/perform/record the soundtrack?

2. Same for the book of digital art. What digital art? Bungie artwork or new Myth IV artwork? If the former do you have the rights or know that takeTwo has the rights to the works of art originally licensed by Bungie? If the latter, who is doing the artwork?

3. Why are you offering as a reward the ability for contributors - when playing in multiplayer - to pick his own username, icon and color from a colorwheel? Is this supposed to be a selling point - e.g. do you think this is something that other online games don't let you do or that you can't already do in any of the existing Myth games in multiplayer?

...

The thing I'd be most curious to know (and forgive me if I've missed this) would be whether or not their idea is for this to have any kind of commercial future. The project as it stands just seems to be an opportunity to pay for something that we already get - great Myth mods by hobbyists. Within the community there's people who'd like the fans to be in control of Myth instead of having it rattling around in a drawer somewhere in Take 2's shittiest office, but there just isn't enough of us. And I can't see the public at large really offering that much money for Myth if the premise is 'we're going to update the game', because the fans are already doing that. You'd have a hard time beating the current admission price of zero dollars and zero cents.

As far as I'm concerned it couldn't be more plain - new game, new title. I'd love to see some of the modders hook up with some game developer types and make something Myth-esque. I'd be right-the-fuck onboard for that.

I don't remember whether it was posted here or on the kickstarter site, but one of the team said that their plans are to get the rights to Myth, finish this project and move on to developing games/game content using other (non-myth) game-development environments - at which point they intend to either make Myth open source or give it back to the community (I forget the exact wording)

Also, I have a theory.

http://i48.tinypic.com/w9fxqq.jpg

Not a criticism, by the way - I like hats. I wish I could find one that fit me.