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Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 11:52 pm
by Baak
Gleep-- Ahhh... Now I understand what you meant - my mistake! Hopefully my detailed explanation will have some use nonetheless. 
Haravikk-- Excellent stuff, as always! But I agree with Gleep's follow-up that we PC'ers need WinAmber/Oak BAD!
Ozone-- You're a genius, man! A great idea!! 
I'd really like it too if Shift-F7 would leave the team stats up permanently (would be very nice in some games). Pressing F7 again would simply turn it off if it had been toggled (Shift-F7'd) on.
Also on my short list of stuff that doesn't affect gameplay would be the ability to select multiple plugins to activate/deactivate and also to save "presets" of plugin combinations (map/plugin) - say ten - so the host could more easily select game combinations that are played often.
Oh and an old request of mine: Unit Presets that include *any* (or at least the alpha) characters as well as 0-9. Thus Alt-m could be melee, etc. Allows for easier use of your hands as well as more intuitive combinations.
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 4:14 am
by carlinho
william, to do a plane that never stops, basically you assign in the monster tag a map action tag "soaring" movement, like birds have, so it flies nonstop all over the sky.
Also for turns you can assign a TFL rate of turn, where units instead of stopping and rotating for turning, rotate without stopping ever.
then you change in loathing the Z variable of the unit, that's double clicking on a unit to get the variables(i guess it was like that) so it flies way above the ground, and i guess you have in the fear monsters tag to check the "flies" flag.
the big problem is when you want your plane to fire....then it stops, calculates fire arch and then fires...and it looks weird.
hey chris, we love you guys, you can see by all the responses you guys got,
long live myth!
and long live the updates!
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:31 am
by William Wallet
Things I'd love to see units able to do:
Attacks on the run - basically yeah, a plane that can fire without stopping, a spearguy that can throw a spear while running, things like that.
Momentum - if you order a unit to stop, maybe instead of stopping on a dime he could sort of slow down. Not ridiculously so, but just a slight slide would rock.
Fighting retreat - if a unit (or a bunch for that matter) is engaged in melee combat, and you order them to run off in the other direction, they should walk backwards at first, get in a couple of hits, then turn and flee. That would be cool.
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 9:15 am
by haravikk
If you need hue changes added to a unit then just get them to a Mac user with Amber (hell I'll do it, it's a five minute job).
The only requirement is that you get the hue changes done BEFORE you even consider fiddling with the collection in Tahoe (or Topaz, I never get them right, the PC collection editor that sucks), as it corrupts the collection in such a way that Amber can't save any changes.
So get the collection, send it to the Mac user (or if it's a standard one just tell 'em) and then they can add the hue change in a few clicks and send the modified collection back. THEN you can adjust sprites on the PC end :p
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:39 pm
by Phex
Seeing all those nice ideas I cant withstand posting a few of my own gimmicks:
<ul>
<li>Content Delivery System: An automatic download will easily save the desired file in you Myth folder. No more waiting and asking for files.</li>
<li>Burning Death for Scenery: Wouldnt it be cool to have different death projectile groups for burned and destroyed scenery? Some things could only be explosive if burned for example.</li>
<li>Autohost enhancements: Random Map Switch, Saving and Loading Authost setups like savegames, voting system to change maps, boot players etc.</li>
<li>Autojoin: Alt-Click on a running game, get a good book and wait for an alert sound when you automatically join the game.</li>
<li>Allow to enter longer names for units: These few Characters are not even enough for regular names.</li>
<li>Scroll down bar for flavor texts: Simple idea and nice possibilites like displaying ALL selected units' names instead of only a few.</li>
<li>Allow to enter longer ingame chat messages: Not so important, but sometimes annoying.</li>
<li>Copy & Paste chat messages: for urls etc.</li>
<li>Allow to whisper to a single player or team: This can be really helpfull when you ally with somebody. Its stupid that you cant talk to your ally without everybody knowing what you are planning.</li>
<li>32+ Slot Multiplayer: visionary but ultra-cool (although the total player count seems to be shrinking). </li>
<li>Veteran Manager: A system which allows to save and load veterans set (groups of units with individual names, kills, etc) from savegames. It should also be possible to allow players to use their veteran sets online, so you could train your coop heroes in multi before going back into solo battle.</li>
<li>Auto Plugin Loader: A list of plugins which can be defined in the option screen. These plugins are loaded automatically when Myth starts. This would allow to display title screens, title music, menus etc. immediately and not only after the first game has been played, which is a bit crappy. It should be fairly easy to implement.</li>
<li>"Untie" units from the mesh grid: This would allow to have souless float over thralls in the water or warriors falling down a cliff when pushed hard enough by a trow. This would make falling damage necessary too .</li>
<li>Trample Damage: Allowing a system which makes units able to run down other units would change the gameplay drastically if applied on trows and other giants. On the other hand I think it would really rock for cavalry, tanks etc.</li>
<li>Value Limits: I never really understood why you can only enter values below 64.000 for any unit attribute.</li>
<li>Element Damage Types: I miss water, earth, wind, ore, lightning or whatever near fire. It would be even cooler for mapmakers to be able to define new damage classes (which could be derived from original damage classes to preserve compatibility between the plugin units and the original units). </li>
<li>Unit-Producing-Attack: Imagine an attack which produces units and does not require any scripting at all. It would be cool for a necromancer for example. It would even allow to make plugins which emulate games like Warcraft etc. in Myth!</li>
<li>Undead Game Mode: A little checkbox which can be selected in the pregame menu would enable this game mode. Whenever one of your units dies it comes back as a ghost near your starting point or wherever. It has to be killed again to be removed from the game. This game mode is different from regular deathmatch because your units come back only once and they come back as a different kind of unit. Archers came back as archer ghosts, but warriors could come back as Thralls instead of warrior ghosts for example. A dropdown menu in fear could detmine the "comeback unit" of every monster.</li>
<li>TOOLS! I gave up or at least paused several mapmaking projects because of Myth's crappy tools. Yes, they really suck.</li></ul>
So far. 
regards,
Phex
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 8:11 pm
by Death's Avatar
thats not quite eleven pages phex
Maybe if I didn't have to go back to Civilization II to get mid-game joining...
-DA
Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 9:22 pm
by Baron LeDant
haha I thought phex's signature said...
Phex's myth piles
hoho
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:22 am
by carlinho
Things I'd love to see units able to do:
Attacks on the run - basically yeah, a plane that can fire without stopping, a spearguy that can throw a spear while running, things like that.
Momentum - if you order a unit to stop, maybe instead of stopping on a dime he could sort of slow down. Not ridiculously so, but just a slight slide would rock.
Fighting retreat - if a unit (or a bunch for that matter) is engaged in melee combat, and you order them to run off in the other direction, they should walk backwards at first, get in a couple of hits, then turn and flee. That would be cool.
Trample Damage: Allowing a system which makes units able to run down other units would change the gameplay drastically if applied on trows and other giants. On the other hand I think it would really rock for cavalry, tanks etc.
two attacks at same time: example: a cavalry unit that stabs (while on the run) with spear + kick or push from horse onto surrounding units so as to throw them away because of the force of the running horse.
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:27 am
by ozone
I just dont see moving attacks possible with this engine. I mean you move by clicking on the mesh so how would you attack in certain directions while moving? Even with reflexive special the unit stops to attack. I just dont see running attacks being a real option.
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:28 am
by William Wallet
Well I imagine it'd only be something you could use with a unit that doesn't stop moving - like a plane. Those units in particular could have a different mode of control or something, perhaps they only stop moving when you actually hit 'space'. So, they might continue on their merry way while firing? Who knows.
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:54 am
by ozone
well I was referring to carlinhos comment about cavelry and your comment about spear chucking on the move...
yes it would be cool but alot of changes would have to be made and I dont see it happening
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 10:09 am
by Archer
The biggest problem with permanently-moving units is usability. How would one easily select a permanently-moving unit without a preset? All the good methods are either failure-prone (dragging a selection box) or risk catching extra units (Return key).
~J
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:26 pm
by William Wallet
Yes but ozone, I don't see a 1.6 happening either so I figured I might as well throw in an idea that'd never happen!
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:06 pm
by Baak
I think making a list of all the excellent requests people have listed that don't affect gameplay would be the most realistic option at this point.
Then prioritize them based on need/want and ease-of-coding.
Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:10 pm
A lot of these things might be add-able (In the convoluted theory in my mind...)
Myth II uses a modified TFL engine which in turn uses a modified Marathon 2 engine correct?
Well, in Marathon, there were things like momentum and fighting on the run. Of course, Marathon was an FPS, so there'd obviously be shooting on the run...but since Myth uses the same base physics engine, if you could activate the momentum again, it might be possible.
See, in Marathon a unit that just suddenly stopped moving forward would still slide forward a bit dependig on movement speed and the terrain.
There was also recoil which would push someone in the opposite direction when they fired a high powered weapon or if they were hit with an explosive they'd get knocked backwards (This can actually be seen in DoD, shoot something with the mortar's splash shell...dunno how it was done though...)
Now, as for attacking on the run, I remember reading that you could get a unit to continue moving after attacking rather than stopping and then moving again (eg: that example of the warrior following an enemy duff, swinging, having a brain fart, and then moving again...) Instead the unit would keep moving.
So for a flying unit, activate that option, somehow use a recoil option (If it can be activated again...), give the attack a negative recoil velocity so the unit continues to move forward (rather than backwards after firing), and then give it the TFL turning option so it turns in an arc and give it the scripting of a hawk so it never stops moving...
As for a trample attack, you could make the attack a melee attack, make the damage based off of velocity, give it the running sequence (so the unit speeds up), and then give the unit a negative recoil and momentum...this might create the running trample attack...
What do you think? Now, I don't know entirely all the data, nor do I really know exactly what I'm talking about, these are all just ideas.
Edited By Myrd on 1136435578