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Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 3:17 am
by Taskman
Good Morning.
I created as part of my conversion "Legends of The Ermine" a "bre'Unor (flaming)" unit.
It behaves somewhat like the flaming soulless in Myth I, throwing flaming bones which explode upon contact with ground/unit (you experienced editors know what I'm talking about).
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My problem is:
To balance the game, I lowered the explosive damage the throwed projectile makes to half the dwarf bottle does (2,500 if I'm not wrong). In levels like #14 (Walls of Muithemne), where you have to blow the wall to pass through, the projectiles won't be powerful enough to destroy it.
By looking in the model animation tags, I discovered that there is no Vitality setting, nor there seems to be an object tag linked.
What should I do now?
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Thanks for your time.
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 3:23 am
by teepens
it's not the damage, it's just the angle. you have to be able to hit right at the very top of the crack in the muirthemne walls to do the damage I believe. or right at the bottom (ala Redemption with the satchel charges and Krid skulls)
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 3:38 am
by Taskman
I don't think so, since I have been aiming at that wall in different points for 30 mins with the game at 16x speed without breaking it once. :p
Plus, I'm having the same problem with all model animations, like 21's house and outhouse, etc.
The dam, instead, can be damaged. :oooh!:
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 7:02 am
by Taskman
it's not the damage, it's just the angle. you have to be able to hit right at the very top of the crack in the muirthemne walls to do the damage I believe. or right at the bottom (ala Redemption with the satchel charges and Krid skulls)
Okay, let's say that you're right: what should I do to fix it?
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 9:56 am
by mauglir
Model animations like the one on Walls of Muirthemne are triggered by damage to special scenery tags, and in the case of the above mesh, that scenery marker is placed at the top of the wall, not at the base like in the Redemption and The Wall levels.
I think the only way you can get your modifed unit to damage that wall section on Walls of Muirthemne is by either giving your unit more of a lobbing attack, or by making changes to the mesh tag (not recommended).
Edited By mauglir on 1082300246
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 12:42 pm
by Taskman
mauglir wrote:I think the only way you can get your modifed unit to damage that wall section on Walls of Muirthemne is by either giving your unit more of a lobbing attack, or by making changes to the mesh tag (not recommended).
Since I want to keep distinct the original Myth II levels and the ones packed with my plugin, I haven't got any choice other than creating new mesh tags.
I found the scenery marker. My monster IS currently able to reach it, so I don't know why it isn't working. First, I'll test the mesh again. Then, I'll try looking on the marker's properties with Fear (looking for Vitality) before acting on it's Z axis.
Thanks.
Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 1:03 pm
by Taskman
Nope. My monster is actually capable of reaching the object, and I think the explosion has a wide enough blast radius.
I found the object tag linked to the model animation (used the outhouse in level 01) and lowered it's vitality from 1.000 to 0.500, but this didn't help.
Maybe I should increment the explosive damage modifier...
Are you registered on PlayMyth.net? Maybe you could look at the plugin by yourself...
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 1:29 pm
by Graydon
I can almost gaurantee you havent placed the scenery object correctly :;):. Often if you try and place the exploding model scenery ON the model it in fact places it BEHIND...on the ground...where it wont be reached. My suggestion is you place the piece of scenery...do a band select of the area you placed it in, select it (since it's invisible) then hold ctrl+ drag to the location on the model you wish to place it. Give that a shot and then give feedback 
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 3:27 pm
by GHOST®
[color=DFC99B]Youre all wrong. ;op
The "15 wall explosion scenery" has the Object(OBJE) Tag of "wall monster trigger object", this OBJE tag has a "Max Vitality" of 8.0 to 8.0 and a "Minimum Damage" setting of 1.0, All damages are set to 0 except explosives which is set to .250.
What all this means is in order for an attack to do ANY damage to the wall trigger AT ALL, the attack has to do produce a minimum of 1.0 of damage to the scenery item, then whatever damage it does do, (1.0 on up), is reduced 75% and taken away from the Triggers Max Vitality. When that Max Vitality reaches 0, then the 15 wall explosion scenery will advance the model 1 frame and reset its health.
This will continue, (for this particular model), until the model hits its last animated frame.
So, at this point I would think somehow you reduced the attacks damage ratio too far. Possible solutions are to re-raise that damage, try resetting the minimum damage to 0, and or, increase the amount of damage the Tirgger takes from explosives to 1.0 or higher as needed.
Hope this helps you with your problem.
GL HF and Die Well. :o)[/color]
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 3:28 pm
by haravikk
The scenery item involved uses an object tag (17 wall trigger object), you will notice that it has a minimum damage value of 1.000 meaning that you must cause at least 1 unit of damage to move the wall animation forward.
This is fine you might think as your unit causes 2.500 damage.
However, if you look closer the wall only suffers 0.398 of any damage caused.
2.500 * 0.398 = 0.995 which is not enough to trigger the animation. You need to either raise the explosive damage caused by the projectile, or make the wall more vulnerable to it in its object tag.
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2004 3:33 pm
by GHOST®
[color=DFC99B]Doh !! I used the wrong Trigger as an example MB ?? :oO
Anyways, same difference as what vikk stated mb, just a different scenery item / object tag. ;o)[/color]
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:49 pm
by Taskman
It's working fine right now, so I'm going to explain to you how I achieved this result:
Since I had to keep the damage done by the bre'Unor projectile "low" to prevent the game from getting unbalanced, I couldn't simply increment it.
The first thing I did was increasing the "Damage by Explosion" from 0.398 to 0.796.
This worked fine at first, and thus I classified that problem as "SOLVED".
Then I thought to myself - what happens if a wight attacks that wall? I made the same changes to the object tag linked to the dam and waited.
-- Looks like a single wight was enough to destroy the wall. --
No good.
So, I reverted to the original tag and lowered the minimum damage by generic attack from 1.000 to 0.500.
That worked.
When that Max Vitality reaches 0, then the 15 wall explosion scenery will advance the model 1 frame and reset its health.
As far as I know, when the vitality is 0 the animation is over. I think the game uses fractions of the specified health to determine when it is time to jump to next frame.
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:49 pm
by GHOST®
[color=DFC99B]WHOOT !! You got it working. :o)
Hmmm, Ill have to get back to you on the trigger health issue. Either way though, back in business for jOO mb. ;op[/color]
Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 10:04 am
by qwerty2
where can I take clases in gibberish?
Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 11:00 am
by GHOST®
[color=DFC99B]
qwerty2 wrote:where can I take clases in gibberish?
Start by opening either Fear or Loathing and begin getting your feet wet in the world of map making, before you know it you will be talking gibberish in Real Life© and your friends and family will look at you more strangely than they normaly do. ;o)[/color]