tain.totalcodex.net

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2004 12:08 pm**

Hey All,

I've got an asymmetrical map that I want to be sure is "tourney capable" and I'm wondering what the written/unwritten requirements are for this?

Specifically:

I've tested running each start's entire army to the flag in KotH and notice that on "auto-pilot" one army tends to get there about 3 seconds before the other. Is this close enough or should it be closer? I will test it again with micro-managing the fast troops to see what the diff is. It's tricky to get a matched time with the varied terrain and what if one team picks 10 ghols vs. 5, etc.

Right now one start is 3 seconds slower if no Trow are picked, but 3 seconds *faster* if the Trow are picked - DOH! Maybe I should script something to trip the Trow and catapult the ghols a little?

Seriously though, trying to get these two teams matched is starting to drive me a little nuts...

The reason I ask is that I noticed Caer Cadarn in the MWC tourney had one start that allowed one team to tag the center Flag Rally flag faster than the other (just barely). If you drew the "slower start" you were hosed because that center flag could make the difference in a game.

I'm not sure how to ensure this type of thing is "fair enough for a tournament". I need a Mesh Measuring Tape that accounts for different units' movements over different terrain...

Any/all feedback - especially from those that know - is greatly appreciated!

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:41 pm**

it depends on the layout of the map. If there is a height advantage in the middle then it is too big a difference.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:00 pm**

Hey Orlando - yeah, in this case there is no height advantage to the center (generally I don't like that on a map).

I guess my biggest concern comes from the Flag Rally problem (the more I thought about it the more important this is than KotH). Having a center flag get tagged first because of a closer starting position is annoying, because once tagged it's easier to defend than attack, and the attacker still only tags it second even if they do defeat the defender.

Hmmmm... I just had an idea... Don't know if it's possible... Think I may have tried something like this before...

Is it possible to change a flag/ball's "Is Turned to Stone" value from a script? Ooohhh... If so, I could start the flags stoned (but not *too* stoned) and then turn them "on" after one minute or something.

Dang, that would be SWEET! Would solve this problem pronto.

But, I have a bad feeling I tried this before when messing with special forms of Bacon: that you can't get to the scenery item via scripting or some such nonsense.

Any thoughts?

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:21 pm**

Yeah... Did a quick check and it's all coming back...

As far as I know there is no way to alter the scenery item (such as flag/ball) via scripting like that. Too bad - seems so simple too...

But... I have another idea I'll fiddle with tonight! ;D

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2004 4:55 pm**

Your best bet for balance purposes is to test the map using the units that would most likely be used for a gametype. If you have trow on your map, test flag placements using trow, if ghols are an option, test with them. If a team or player has the option to take trow or ghols in a flag rally game and they don't, then they deserve to lose.

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2004 5:03 pm**

Agreed. I'm going to check "auto-pilot" versus careful hand navigation too, as sometimes by hand you can shave a second or two off if the auto-pilot tacks heavily.

I've got this other idea floating around that I will definitely try out as soon as I can. If it works the way I think it should it could make for some interesting gameplay.

We'll just have to see!

Posted: **Mon Sep 20, 2004 7:35 pm**

I'd say 3 seconds is too large a difference really, getting it under 2 would be ideal. However 2 team koth often becomes just BC the other team so its not that great an issue

Also if the flag layout is similar to Caer then try to balance the side flags so one team can't tag both of them a couple secs before the other team.

Posted: **Thu Sep 23, 2004 3:49 pm**

Just move the units or objects a touch? If you set-up a team so it's trow/ghÃ´ls are closer to the flag than the other team's then they would get there quicker/slower as required. Or nudge the flag around a bit if it isn't required to be where it is

Posted: **Thu Sep 23, 2004 5:53 pm**

Also, if you need to be really accurate with object placement, go into Loathing's view options (view preferences/view settings?) and set it to display triangles. This will overlay the entire mesh grid, thus allowing you ensure every teams duff is exactly 29 cells from the flag (or whatever).

Posted: **Fri Sep 24, 2004 2:05 pm**

I was going to suggest the same thing Maug did, or what hara said, just move the units that are further away... to be '3 seconds closer'... leave one team, move the other. could move the faster team farther away too.. either way works. Here's another idea... do Koth like Recon is set... two flags. Have two flags seperated, and equally distant from one team.. so each team woudl get a 'home' flag.. so it's somewhat of a CTF/Koth match... if you _dont_ attack you wont gain any time on the other team, as they are clocking at the same rate. Good luck

tain.totalcodex.net

Making a Map "Tourney Capable" - Couple of questions