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Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:32 am
by Jagman
I was thinking of getting into c-map dabbling, perhaps just the simple things like turning an existing map to night, tinting, touch-ups and stuff like that..
Problem is I don't have the absolutely recommended Photoshop.. The GIMP seems like an ok program but im having difficulties importing to loathing, does anyone know how to use the GIMP (which is free, joy) for this purpose?
I know now that i need indexed 240 colors 8-BMP (for PC). As an example i was trying to turn the Dead Man's Chest lagoon c-map to a night map. I ended up with a nice-looking dark bitmap that used an indexed palett of 240 colors exactly. I could also import to loathing without any errors, but when I did the colors went to hell, as if it had been turned to a 256 color file, so it lost alot of its definition...
Any help on this matter?
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2004 10:27 am
by TarousZars
Jagman wrote:I know now that i need indexed 240 colors 8-BMP (for PC). As an example i was trying to turn the Dead Man's Chest lagoon c-map to a night map. I ended up with a nice-looking dark bitmap that used an indexed palett of 240 colors exactly. I could also import to loathing without any errors, but when I did the colors went to hell, as if it had been turned to a 256 color file, so it lost alot of its definition...
Any help on this matter?
Jag, I haven't played with GIMP for a while w/ myth. I couldn't figure out how to export the color map. So even if I indexed everything, the colors all went to pot, because i didn't have the right color map. I'll look into it later today, and see if i can come up w/ a solution.
Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 4:51 am
by Jagman
Thx tarz, help on this matter is greatly appreciated.
Its funny how u can have a nice looking indexed cmap sitting there right up until u import it and the quality dies...
Btw tar, my emails shot for some reason, so ill post those aes suggestions on an MA forum
Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:49 am
by TarousZars
Doh, I meant Color Table, not Color Map. Although I guess you don't need the color table for the mesh.
I just Tried to do what you said, i turned Dead Mans Chest into a dark map, with no errors. everything just worked perfectly.
One thing i did that you might try, when you first open the image in Gimp, change it to rgb, then make any changes you need, then reindex.
It you still can't get it to work, mb give me a step by step process of what you are doing, so i can try and duplicate it.
Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:03 am
by Jagman
Is this along the lines of what u did..
Opened up the exported BMP (or PICT) in gimp
Converted to RGB mode,
Did whatever changes, say tinting
Converted back to indexed mode, selecting optimised palett max 256
Saved It, imported to loathing
Im still to do some experimenting on this, but i was using 240 indexed.. whereas say the cracks in cloudspine BMP when exported has 256 indexed colours.. was i doing that part wrong?
Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 10:13 am
by mauglir
Exported cmaps will show the full 256 color palette, even if you originally imported the cmap with only 240 colors. This is because Loathing adds the missing colors using the blood color setting (from the Mesh tag in Fear).
All 8-bit images (the kind Myth uses for color maps) have a 256 color palette by definition, but when you're indexing your cmap, you need to save some of those colors for blood stains. This is why it is recommended that you index your map using 240 colors -- this saves 16 color "slots" for the Myth engine to do its thing with blood.
Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 3:35 am
by Jagman
Thanks maug, that explains some of that wierdness
Ill keep doing some experimentation - mb im just obsessive and there really isnt any change in quality...
But i noticed the effect again tar, working with dead mans float, hmm
Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 4:08 pm
by sillek
Or you could just download Adobe Photoshop CS ..
Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:58 pm
by TarousZars
Sillek, he's trying to do this legally and cheap. That means NOT Photoshop. Jag, Are you doing 240 colors on the index? Make sure you are. 256 will give you issues.
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:34 am
by Jagman
Ok, status report...
Yes ive been using 240 colours 
It seems to me that the more drastic the colour change for the bitmap, the more noticible the loss of quality. Happily though i managed to take the Homecoming TFL map and 'overcast' it, (and im using this to make an exciting and possibly commitable coop map..) without any problems.
There is perhaps one remaining question. the gimp seems to have enough features for me to do some neat editing, but there is one major gap. Say i wanted to take a cmap and make just one change to it. For exapmle, forging a terrain ramp where there is normally solid rock. Because im a noob, I do this by smudging and blurring the sand or dirt onto it, and this is all after ive converted to rgb colour mode. But here is the problem - when i convert it back to indexed mode, it takes into account the thousands of new gradient colours to make an optimised palette of 240 colours. The entire cmap then suffers as it squeezes 150 different yellows from the ramp, leaving the entire bitmap blotchy.
The ideal solution would be to use the original palette and apply it to the new c-map, the result being that the ramp then adjusts to the surroundings, rather then the surroundings adjust to the ramp. There is a 'use custom palette' option when it converts it (rather than palette optimisation) but heres the cincher - i cant find a way to save the original palette for this use!!
Do you know of any way to save the palette, or is there another solution to this problem 
Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:37 am
by mauglir
Smudging and blurring are not the best approaches for that kind of thing. As you have already experienced, both functions will add thousands of extra colors to your cmap (in RGB mode).
You might try this approach: draw a selection box around a small area of your cmap that has the approximate colors and textures you want for your ramp, and then paste that in the appropriate spot. Use an eraser to shape this square into a proper looking ramp. You could probably get away with blurring or feathering the edges a little bit to help smooth the lines between the two main textures.
Don't know if that's much help -- I don't use gimp myself, so I can't be sure exactly what you can can't do.
Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 2:58 pm
by vinylrake
They are written for Photoshop but the tips in these color mapping tutorialsmight be of some help.
regards,
vr
Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2004 3:09 pm
by Graydon
Jag buddy... if you really want.. i know a friend of a friend of mine that might be able to get you a copy of photoshop... Let me know if you're interested... should take maybe 6 hours of your time?
Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 4:48 pm
by Sam The Butcher
Hey Jag Mb I can help you I dont know. I have never used Gimp, but I use Paint Shop Pro for map making. I don't know how similiar the 2 are but with PSP there is a cloning tool. This is very useful for alot of things. Anyway what you could mb do is copy the original color map as it would be used in loathing. Then on the copy build your ramp in rgb mode. Then just clone the ramp onto the original color map.