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Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 7:29 am
by Phex
Hello,
I recently thought about making some "scenario multiplayer maps", which means maps that actually have a kind of story or mission behind them. This includes scripting as well as differenciated winning conditions etc. It would be a variety to the common gimble ctf games.
A basic example: Team 1 defends castle, Team 2 attacks castle.
- When Team 2 can conquer the harbour, they will get reinforcements from a ship.
- When Team 1 can move their messenger beyond the enemy lines, they will get reinforcements from the next city.
- As soon as the King of Team 1 dies, their troops will surrender.
(...)
What do you think of this concept? Is it actually fun to play or too complicated and unbalanced? If you think its worth to develop, I would be glad about some scenario ideas like the one above.
rgds,
Phex.
Posted: Sat Dec 04, 2004 11:19 am
by Myrd
I think it's a sweet idea, and would put some variety into the game if done right. Of course, all of this would be done with scripting, but it should work - custom multiplayer scoring has been done before (see MythRacer, Clue, etc).
Of course, it will have to be balanced, and that just means you need ppl to test it alot before you make a final version, but other than that by all means go for it! I'll be looking forward to playing these.
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:35 am
by mauglir
There was an old TFL trick you could do in the game options screen that would let you play a solo map just like a multi-player map -- where one team would be Dark and the other team would be Light. Dark always had the advantage of course because they had many more units, but you really had to know how to work with the scripting in order to make certain things happen on the map (like getting the wights and soulless to appear on Across the Gjol, which would only happen if the Dark player allowed his first waves of Thrall to die).
Anyway, the games were a hell of a lot of fun, even if they were kind of weird. If you took the time to design a map designed specifically for that kind of play with scripting that was flexible enough to allow for a wide variety of situations, I think it would be a great plugin.
Posted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:14 pm
by Pistol_Pete
I remember that the Myth II plugin - Lichen - had a general that gave you periodic reinforcements if it was alive at designated time intervals during the match. I'd be interesting in seeing a plug expanding upon this theme.
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:16 pm
by The Elfoid
Best way to have it (though this would be hard). All the players in the campaign agree to meet up at the same time and play through the game. The results of the battle are then used to alter the next map that is created i.e. the outcome effects the next game in the campaign.
Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:42 pm
by Graydon
Wow. A truely unique idea. By all means it's possible... only one hitch.. they would almost have to rely on 2 team maps. Scripting could get rather complicated with 3 or 4 teams.
If you plan to endeavor on this project and need help with figuring scripting out.. Drop by udogs hotline, I'm there all the time 
Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2004 2:07 pm
by The Elfoid
I'm never gonna make anything seriously.
Wouldn't need much scripting really. Just have the map team e-mail everyone in the teams some story updates like "having skrewed up their escape by falling into a haX0r pit of doom, the light is forced to make a final stand" or "the dark camp was still but the light kept making short skirmishes"
Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 7:08 am
by Phex
Hey Elfoid,
Your Idea is basically different from my Idea. You are talking about a system with several maps, where the outcome of the previous map influences the next map. This is a concept I already thought about too, but its just not practicable. Reason: planing and effort are just too big, there is - as far as I know - no way to automatize this process; so a kind of Game Master had to create new maps all the time or take already done maps out of a map pool. It is a good Idea for a campaign (Map Based Campaign Tournament), but not for a plugin! By the way, if anyone is still interested in this idea (as Horus never contacted me), I would be glad to address myself to it again.
But what I actually talked about is a plugin that uses scripts to modify a netmaps inner events like reinforcements, model animation, victory and defeat to promote the story that forms the background of each map. This means, one map may be played with different non-linear outcomes without needing to create new maps.
rgds,
- Phex.
Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2004 6:51 pm
by The Elfoid
I kno it was different, I just thought my idea should get into print somewhere!
If you ever make ur idea, I can test it maybe.
Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:06 pm
by Lothar
I've been gone a while, so now I'm here digging up old posts that I missed during the past few weeks. 
I just want to say that that sort of a plugin is a fantastic idea, whether done in Dungeons and Dragons Style with a Dungeon Master picking the next level, or just simply having a type of organized multiplayer light vs. dark game with scripting.
In any case I would love to help in any way I can, including Fearin', beautifully written and eloquent unit flavors, or testing, or whatever you may need help with.
Myth players concerned with grammar? bwahahaha
Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2005 10:42 am
by Phex
Hello,
Actually the main issue I need help with is the lack of ideas concerning reasonable and credible backgrounds (credible in a sense of fantasy realism).
This means I would be glad about stories etc. which subject matters can be converted into a playable Myth map or even laboured concepts of such conversions. It is absolutely not important that these stories fit into the Myth background (or even the Myth world) and can sure feature non-regular places and characters (or units). Anything is welcome.
My aim is to have maps with (if possible) very different kinds of missions set in very different locations, which is difficult to work out.
rgds,
- Phex.
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 9:31 am
by TheHelmet
I've been thinking about a similar idea for ages, never amounted to anything much though..
Is there no way for Myth to recognize which units survived on the previous map and only load those on the next coming map (in a kind of hero-based campaign thing)?
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:26 am
by Industry
"Must Use Veterans" checkbox.
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 9:33 am
by Phex
"Must Use Veterans" checkbox.]
This brings me to a new question: How does this veteran thing work?
As far as I know, veterans are saved after every won game.
But how does this work? Are they saved as a temporary information that gets lost after you start a new game or are they saved for ever? If you load a game, does this also mean reloading all the veterans you got? If a veteran dies, is he deleted for all times or only until the next reload? Are veterans also saved after lost games? When I launch Myth, are the veterans from the last game I played saved yet? Can singleplayer veterans be used for netgames or the other way arround? Does that mean loading a singleplayer game with lots of vets before playing online is a good idea if you play on a map with vets? - really a host of questions.
A 'Veteran Manager' would be very cool, allowing you to select the veterans you want to use for the following game 
.
rgds,
- Phex.
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:39 pm
by Lothar
Another lesson from from T.A. Lothar?
I think that you have quite a few serious misconceptions about the phenomenon known as "veterans."
lets start with a defination of the word:
veteran, adj. -- rendered competent through trial and experience; "troops seasoned in combat"; "a veteran officer" [syn: seasoned, veteran]
veteran, n. -- 1: a serviceman who has seen considerable active service; "the veterans laughed at the new recruits" [syn: veteran soldier] 2: a person who has served in the armed forces [syn: vet] 3: an experienced person who has been through many battles; someone who has given long service
OK, now that we are on the same page, here's how this pertains to Myth:
Whenever a unit in Myth makes a kill, it gets either a shield (light units) or a skull (dark units) to represent their accomplishment. Every time that a unit scores a kill, his attack will be become more effective and he will be able to attack at a faster rate of speed (Assuming of course that the unit's maker has so specified as much in the unit's monster tag). Now, with this in mind, we understand that a unit with 20 kills will be far superior to one with 1 kill or none.
Now for how a unit's veteran status is saved; first we will assume in Solo Single-Player offline:
On the first level your dwarf has 167 something kills for killing all those ghasts. On the second level, he will be the same dwarf, with the same name, color, etc. and he will have all 167 kills and a new symbol representing that he has survived one battle. This will continue with all units, by the last level, if you keep all your units alive, they will have super fast attacks and be very accurate with their aim. If you save the game, veterans will be saved in the saved game file.
Now for games played online:
When you play a game online veteran status is...
I will add more later when I have the chance, my time at this public computer is up. ^.^
---Back, as I was saying...
When you play a game online veteran status is gained in exactly yhe same manner. Say there are 6 people in a game, each player will have their own legion of units that may or may not attain veteran status, depending on whether the player has units that survive through the end of the game. If they play another game, each player will have his own units that survived at the end of the last game. If a player leaves the game, and there are now 5 players in the game, ther 6th player's veteran's are erased, but the other 5 can continue playing with their same veterans. However, if a new 6th player enters the game, all the players' veteran units are erased. This is because (I'm guessing) the game will be unfair if 5 players have super-vets and one player has none, so when a new player enters the game, it erases the veterans and evens the playing field.
Therefore, yes, veterans are saved (I don't know exactly where) in a temporary place on the host's computer. There is no way to control or manipulate this system short of closing a game and not letting any new players in after the first game in order to save veterans for subsequent levels.
On a side note, I have noticed that if you are playing FFA and then you switch to Co-op with veterans turned on, (correct me someone if I am mistaken) all the different players' veterans are pooled together for the Co-op game.
As for your idea, the only way for a set of subsequent levels to work in the fashion you mentioned, you would have to some control with scripting:
Let me explain: If you want only veterans to appear on Level2 you would say "Must use veterans" for that particular unit. If this unit survived from the first level he would now be able to exist on the second level. However, this may not always work if you, say, want to play Level2 first, then you would have to use some simple scripting like "Check for veterans. No units have veterans? All units appear." and then "Some units have veterans? Make Invisible units without veterans." Something like that.
I'm sure I could say more, but I don't know what else to say. If you still have questions feel free to post them here.
Whew, I wrote a book! :surprised: