Page 1 of 1
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:40 pm
by Lugas
I've looked on the Fear 1.5 Manual and I'm fairly confused about something called Global Tint. I think that it makes a map a day/night map (or something else completely...). However, will turning a bright map like Muirthemne's Global Tint dark make it a night map.
For my future product, we are introduced (this is my plan now and can change in varied ways) with a poor villager being chased and killed. I want to make it outside Muirthemne, so could I change the Global Tint to black and make it a Night map...?
Woops, I called the topic Lugas...? Sorry!
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:07 pm
by Graydon
Yea, global tint can effectively make the mesh a tinted colour. You could use neon green if you really wanted. A tint of darkish grey is usually best for making it a night map.
One thing you have to be careful with however, is that the more you tint a map, the more details you lose. Play around with the values. You probably only need a fraction of tinting to make it dark enough. Also, any units with the 'respects global tint' checked in their collection references, will do just that... they tint according to whatever tint the mesh is using.
Posted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 4:43 pm
by lank
global tint will affect objects on the map, like units, scenery, projectiles, etc., but doesn't affect the mesh/shadow map, and most models also do not have their collection references checked so as to use the global tint (which means they end up standing out in daylight colours).
to fix the models, simply find out which models are being used and locate their collection references (okay, that might not always be so straightforward, but if you have spite & malice it really can help) and check "uses global tint".
the global tint should be around 0.3-0.4 and the tint colour should be the same as the shadow colour as defined also in the mesh tag in fear.
to make the shadow map appear darker, change the transition point (should be around the middle-left of the mesh tag along with light/shadow colours and light/shadow fractions) to around 1.3 and consider increasing the dark fraction a little (but not as high as 1.000 unless you have a specific reason - probably not even as high as 0.95).
don't change the light colour or fraction very much, because that is used when dwarfs blow things up, archers shoot fire arrows and fetch shoot lighting and those sorts of things, and you want them to remain bright.
as graydon points out, you will lose some details in making a day mesh a night mesh, but i think this is acceptable - unless you're some freaky undead like a vampire or lich, you don't see as much detail at night, but the detail is still all there if you provide a source of light, however brief. of course, the balance (and there's always a balance) is that it has to be playable.
mac and pc screens both have different native bightnesses, and you must take this into consideration if you want it to look decent on both. whatever you do, you need to have everything visible, but nothing with such high contrast relative to its surroundings that it's all you can see (nothing's worse than a nice dark mesh with day-bright units prancing around on it). mac screens are typically lighter than windows, so if you're developing on a mac you have to err on the side of having it a little brighter than you'd like or else windows users really won't be able to see a thing. conversely, if you're on windows, err on the side of having it a little darker, or else mac users will look at this mid-grey map and wonder if it's really meant to be anything in particular. don't worry if there's a lot of switching between fear and loathing to check this, and do make sure you listen if people on the other platform tell you it's too light or dark - and if it comes to it, choose for the grey map on mac screens because at least then the mac users will be able to see; it would be unplayable on windows otherwise.
i seem to have written a small essay, all of a sudden, when all i intended was to tell you just how to use the global tint... consider this a freebie. :;):
i hope it's useful when you go to turning day maps into night maps. this is actually the way i make all my night/indoor maps, starting with a day-bright cmap and using tricks of the engine to make it dark. good luck. 
Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:04 am
by Lugas
Thx for that.
I'll have difficulty making my maps look good on Macs and PCs because I only have Macs, no PCs. And I have no chance of seeing it on a PC because my only version of Virtual PC isn't OS X Native and I don't have an Intel iMac/Macbook/Mac Mini. Also when you say "Macs" is visual pleasure the same for all modern macs?
I suppose when it's finshed, I could release a beta and ask PC users to give me feedback on viewing pleasure...?
Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:37 am
by lank
yes, it should be the same for all modern macs. even old ones have the same screen gamma, so if it's good on one mac it'll be good on all macs (well, most - surely there's someone out there who's screwed with his gamma and doesn't realise it's off ).
and you're right: when you're ready to show it off, get a friend with a pc to check the brightness on his screen. preferably just before you do a large beta distribution, too.
Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 12:52 am
by Eddaweaver
A bigger thing is LCDs vs CRTs; CRTs typically display dark areas far darker than LCDs by default, and many CRTs once they've been used for a couple of years start to burn-out which makes the darker areas darker still.
A good part of creating a night atmosphere is with dark 3D Fog which you can set from the meshes section in Fear. Beware some people have 3D Fog turned off in their Myth2 preferences.
Edited By Eddaweaver on 1146477185
Posted: Mon May 01, 2006 7:34 pm
by lank
it's all about achieving the balance and ratios that give the perception of night. the one thing i can say about it is that it isn't easy to get right. at all.
:p
Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 1:22 pm
by Lugas
I've tried what lank said and it doesn't seemed to have worked.
I'm on a Mac, so advise from a Mac user is less likely to result in me going mad (but it always is possible 
)
I've literally duplicated the "Defend Muirthemne" map from M2 and i've deleted map actions so I can make a fresh start.
I've tried to make it a night map. I'll give you details about shadow map and gloabl tint:
Dark Colour: Black Fraction: 0.949
Light Colour: A yellow type colour Fraction: 0.098
Transition Point: 1.300
Global Tint Colour: Black Fraction: 0.297
Fog: There is no fog.
Is there anything I'm doing wrong? How do you edit the tranition point colour?
Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 1:30 pm
by Lugas
By changing the transition point to 2.300 i've managed to solve my Night Map!
*pats on shoulder*
But one problem, the walls of Muirthemne look all happy and day coloured. Is this solved by going into Collection References and ticking "Uses Global Tint"?
Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 1:42 pm
by Lugas
Problem Solved! (and about time too!)
Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 1:10 am
by lank
glad it worked. the transition point is the most important thing, i find, and then finding an appropriate global tint...
Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 2:12 am
by Lugas
Say are 8 bit bmp files only accepted as overhead maps in fear?
Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 5:54 pm
by haravikk
Yes, everything in Myth is 8 bit (except the overall finished result when everything's combined together
Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 7:57 am
by lank
don't use fear for overhead maps unless your map is square. then make sure the bitmap is 128x128 pixels. then fear will do it correctly, otherwise it stuff it up by assuming the preceding.