tain.totalcodex.net

Alright, first, let me level with you ( You being whoever is reading this.).

I'm not a mapmaker, a unit maker, a scripter, a color map maker, mesh designer, or anything like that. I'm learning, but I'm still fairly amateur. I recognise how hypocritical it would be to demand anything of people especially when I can't deliver any part of it myself. I mention this mainly to bring forth the point that this isn't a demand, or whining, or asking for something. I'm merely asking how this could be done, what would be needed, and if it was practical and plausible.

Lately I've been thinking of the 10 year anniversary that TFL is going to have in less than 6-7 months. Then I began to think about all of the amazing upgrades to TFL and Myth 2 that Magma has brought about. So I was playing Bagrada the other night, and It struck me. The Fallen Lords color maps are very bland and detail-less. While many Mythers will probably sigh (in contempt) at that comment, bear with me.

How possible would it be, to enhance TFL colormaps, or outright replace them with higher quality color maps?

I know that Myth 2 features higher quality color maps, and I seem to remember someone working on TSG developed a way to enhance the detail level.... Is it possible? How plausible. could it be done before November? Do people want it? Would it be omni-patchable?

Please, I know that there are some of you out there who don't see any problems, or think it's fine the way it is. Just please bear with me, and hear me out. I'm merely asking for your advice, and what you all think. I value all of your opinions. (except Elfoid He He I kid, I kid. I value your opinion)

the colour maps between myth 2 and tfl are actually the same in terms of pixel size on screen. i.e. one pixel on the colour map represents the same area on the game map in both games.

the main difference between the two is the mesh division: measuring from a corner vertex, myth 2 has two vertices for every one you count in tfl. in spite of this (or perhaps in part because of this) i personally think that the tfl maps tend to look better than those of m2. i think the landscapes generally look more natural and less steep, which is partly forced by the lower resolution mesh (though i'll admit there are plenty of times and places where a high-res mesh benefits things in general).

another factor that influences how a mesh looks is light and shadow (i can hear people who know me groaning already. don't worry, i won't harp on - too long :p ). again, i actually think they did a finer job in tfl than in m2, partly because loathing makes people lazy and, compared to what can be achieved with other methods, does a relatively poor job (though better than no shadows at all!).

however, killswitch, i believe, has been working on a version of the myth engine which enables detail textures (somewhat like m3) but implemented so as to require the least changes to existing tag data. that said, i cannot speak for his intentions or hold high hopes that this technology will be introduced to any kind of anniversary version of tfl. that being said, a detail overlay on tfl's maps would look mighty sweet.

Nope. It's not me. It's Melekor that's been looking into detailed textures. See here. This system is pretty much what is used in Myth 3. (Though I could be wrong.)

I do agree with you about light and shadows being better in TFL. Check out the shadow maps in Homecoming (the one where you get the Codex in Covenant). Notice the "statues" casting shadows from atop the small arena (ok, the statues aren't there but they do make shadows. A throw back to before TFL 1.3 when we couldn't zoom out and see the arena top.)

No, the M3 system just uses higher-resolution colour maps stored as JPEG images. Melekor's approach (although used in some other games), has not been used in the Myth series before.

I don't think it's worth the effort. If anything was do-able though, just the demo maps would be nice

thanks killswitch. that's my memory for ya.

Myrd wrote:No, the M3 system just uses higher-resolution colour maps stored as JPEG images. Melekor's approach (although used in some other games), has not been used in the Myth series before.

Well, I guess what I meant was M3 uses texture "stacks" to make a richer texture (instead of a flat color).

BTW, how hard would it be to implement a second "detail" color map for a map? Example: you make your typical color map (with green hills, rocky canyons). Then make another color map (with rough texture areas) and use it as an "overlay" layer (if there is one. If there isn't a detail map, ie older maps, then just the color map is displayed.)

This might be more of a stopgap, but it should be (might be?) easy to implement - just load 2 maps instead of 1 and overlay.

Wouldn't it be just as easy to add the detail map in as a layer when you are creating the map in Photoshop/GIMP? (And a whole lot easier on the programmers). I mean short of possibly saving some memory when loading the mesh. The map will look just as beautiful with a detail texture blended into the cmap with Photoshop as it will when its blended in with the Myth Engine.

Repeat after me. Pre-Render. Pre-render. Pre-render.

It's a nice idea, but it wont happen, so stop thinking about it. Who's going to code that stuff guys? It wont be me, it wont be you, and by the rate that those screens have been up for, it wont be Melekor either.

Myth rocks, go play it and have fun.

Graydon wrote:It's a nice idea, but it wont happen, so stop thinking about it. Who's going to code that stuff guys? It wont be me, it wont be you, and by the rate that those screens have been up for, it wont be Melekor either.

Myth rocks, go play it and have fun.

<taunt>
Ooooooh! Burn! Did ya hear that Melekor?? You aren't gonna take that lying down, are ya? Show Graydon who's the coder with the Mad Skillsâ„¢ I mean, if I were in your shoes I'd be whippin' up an update right now just to show him up!
</taunt>

Heh, let's see if that works.

Graydon wrote:It's a nice idea, but it wont happen, so stop thinking about it. Who's going to code that stuff guys? It wont be me, it wont be you, and by the rate that those screens have been up for, it wont be Melekor either.

I agree. But then suddenly Ren/Ooga announced their super project which is the next best thing to Myth IV and I always said nothing would ever begin to come close. So who knows?

Myth rocks, go play it and have fun.

Thanks Zappo

Dantski wrote: So basically in 5 years you've done the storyline and maybe 3-4 of the 15 levels. Since I am not clued into the rest, I'll assume you're not actually that close to completion on many other things, since you're asking for a lot of help and time from other people.

I don't call into question your hard work and idea, but the likelyhood of it ever being completed. TFV is still a heck of a long way from completion and I wasn't happy with the gameplay of that last time I tested. Since TFV has a much larger (not necessarily more skilled) team working on it, I don't presume your work to be of higher quality until I see something for myself.

It has to be said, sadly. Still, mad props for sticking at it for so long and actually trying to get things to happen.
I'm just a few years past optimistic at this point

No optimistic does not mean pessimistic

I'm hopeful for something cool. I mean, they finished the Tain! Anything is possible!

Death's Avatar wrote:I mean, they finished the Tain! Anything is possible!

Heh, you argue a good point! Who knows what's next, PC Amber/Oak in our lifetime?!

Souly, I've enjoyed this plugin and thought it deserved for play-time than it did. Heck, I even watched the unit training videos on YouTube.

What was the last release of this great plugin?