tain.totalcodex.net

Posted: **Fri Apr 23, 2004 9:37 am**

Time out folks....let's cool done and not feed the trolls

First off:
As others have mentioned numerous times, this was a beta. More like how Myth III has been done in the past then how 1.4.x was handled by MythDev, this beta was released earlier in the development cycle while we where still very much open to feedback and changes. And as others have mentioned send us the films please.

2nd: Project Magma has changed a lot in the past 6 months. We have made a very serious effort to solicit feed back from the community and to make it easy for the community to give us feed back. Such as the major upgrade of the web site here, with its online bug tracker and much improved forums. Trust me are very interested in public feedback.

3rd: Some facts: 1.5 started from life from the original Bungie 1.3 code base and was updated for XP & OS X from scratch. Then had a bunch of stuff from 1.4 was brought in. Next the vTFL/Myth II hybrid game play code was redone by isolated the vTFL code from the Myth II and replacing it with real TFL code. Then the Myth II portion of the game play was reverted back to 1.3 keeping only bug fixes like the archer walk bug.

The Project Magma team that built 1.5 is much different from the team that built 1.4. Yes we still have all the programmers from the 1.4 team, which without them 1.5 would never have been possible(thanx guys). But we also have new members such as Myrd, Nae'blis, and myself(none of which are TFLers either). There are other new folks on the programming team also, but the previous 3 have contributed the most code in 1.5 of the new team members .

4th: Wills....1.5.1 Will be the last version of Myth II period. Note: 1.5.1 will contain no game play changes or bug fixes. Unless something really bad slips past the entire community and makes it into 1.5.0. 1.5.1 is only being done to provide add some polish to things that didnâ€™t make it into 1.5 before the change freeze occurred. The Linux port is also planned for the 1.5.1 cycle.

We Will make 1.5 has close to 1.3 game play /w bug fixes has we can. BTW: we have a special debugging feature that turns on 1.3 game play which we use when viewing bugs in films. It is really interesting to see how many of these bugs where in 1.3 also.

5th: Road Map:

Here is the official road map for Project Magma programming efforts.

0. Ship PB#2 with bug fixes based on the feedback received so far(repeat this step until no game play bugs are found).
1. Ship 1.5 with no open game play bugs.
2. Ship TFL 1.5(see the TFL project page for more info)
Things start to get fuzzy here:
3. Work on Myth III 1.2 and ship it when everyone is happy with it.
4. Work on Map making tools for Myth II & III for OS X.
5. Ship Myth II 1.5.1 /w some extra polish, a demo version, a Linux port.
6. Do something new that we can't talk about yet and mb will never even happen. But I can say that it doesn't contain the word Myth in title.

And remember Play Myth & Have Fun.

Posted: **Fri Apr 23, 2004 9:51 am**

Opps I forgot the proposal part:

We also have a build of Myth II
we call 1.3.5. It is very much 1.3 with most of the modernization items added. Such as the OS X & XP fixes, plus it works with PM.net and such. We use it primarly to verify 1.3 bugs and diffing the 1.5 code against when looking for bugs. It is very pure 1.3 so it lacks a lot of the other things added to 1.4/1.5.

If you folks really want 1.3 that bad, I'm willing it to reasonably finish it up and release it. If you want it really soon a few donations would speed up work a lot.

Posted: **Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:47 pm**

CIK wrote:3rd: Some facts: 1.5 started from life from the original Bungie 1.3 code base and was updated for XP & OS X from scratch.

That isn't what Iron saidhere. More bullshit. This is exactly the kind of thing that caused me to retire. You guys make doing anything hard as pushing a dirt pile up a hill with a toothpick.

Posted: **Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:54 pm**

Guest wrote:That isn't what Iron said

However Iron has said multiple times privately and publicly that he is not the team leader.

Posted: **Fri Apr 23, 2004 3:04 pm**

Graydon wrote:
Guest wrote:That isn't what Iron said
However Iron has said multiple times privately and publicly that he is not the team leader.

I needed that laugh. Thanks! Now come to my office and clean the kauphy off my monitor please. It's your fault it's there.

Posted: **Fri Apr 23, 2004 3:27 pm**

It is very possible that Iron was referring to the game play section of the code. I personally did all the coding following the death of MythDev until the first commit of 1.5 source code to cvs. And the fact is I used my 1.3.5 version(which I built from Bungie's 1.3) and diffed every single source file against 1.4.4 and brought in all the stuff from 1.4.4 needed to enable 1.4.4 game play and some of the other enhancements from 1.4.4.

The development of Myth is very much different now then during 1.4.x. What outsiders donâ€™t realize is that TFL/Myth II/Myth III are now a single project with a very large core library that contains 90% of the OS specific code and a ton of other common code shared between the 3 games.

We may make mistakes from time to time, but trust me we have no need half truths or deceit here. Iâ€™m not going to rehash the past, but there is just one big happy Myth development family now. And the folks that canâ€™t except that should maybe checkout some day time TV or something.

Posted: **Fri Apr 23, 2004 3:38 pm**

Guest wrote:That isn't what Iron saidhere. More bullshit. This is exactly the kind of thing that caused me to retire.

Funny, seems the only time you come out of "retirement" is when you sense an opportunity to stir up more bull yourself. But anyway, what exactly are you referring to in your link that has you jumping up and down excitedly and pointing your finger?

Posted: **Fri Apr 23, 2004 3:56 pm**

ChrisP wrote:
Guest wrote:That isn't what Iron saidhere. More bullshit. This is exactly the kind of thing that caused me to retire.

Funny, seems the only time you come out of "retirement" is when you sense an opportunity to stir up more bull yourself. But anyway, what exactly are you referring to in your link that has you jumping up and down excitedly and pointing your finger?

Nice try ChrisP. Don't play stupid when people know you're not.

Posted: **Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:00 pm**

Yeah - everyone's happy CIK... everyone except the player. gg thx.

Posted: **Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:08 pm**

Yeah - everyone's happy CIK... everyone except the player. gg thx.

And who would this "the player" be? You? Or are you referring to all players of Myth II? Last time I checked, players of Myth II are individuals and not one monolithic entity - each has his own opinion of 1.5.

Posted: **Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:10 pm**

Message to the players -> Report the forking bugs or STFU. And by reports I mean films or what ever else is needed to fix the problem. Posts like â€œOMFG Myth doesn't run on my computer anymoreâ€ are not bug reports unless you include some kind of info about your computer and a decent description of the problem. BTW both Apple & Microsoft make excellent tools for dumping the OS info to a text file for bug reports(System Profiler/dxdiag.exe).

We can't fix what we don't know about. Each of us(programmers) spends time online playing and trying to get a feel for things for the "players". But at the end of the day it's the bug reports and posts to these forums that count.

Also there is no way to make everyone happy. Can't do it else where in life, and sure can't do it here. The goal here is make the majority happy and deliver a decent upgrade.

BTW: no one made anyone download 1.5 and install it either. Play what ever makes you happy, btw I've heard there's this game called Unreal....

Posted: **Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:23 pm**

Guest wrote:Nice try ChrisP. Don't play stupid when people know you're not.

Eh, some people think I'm stupid. And maybe in this case I am, because the only post by Iron on the page you linked to says this:

> I think CIK meant "_If_ you don't report the bugs, they
> won't get fixed."

Somehow I don't think that's what you meant to reference, but I don't see anything on any other pages of that thread that proves any "bullshit".

If you're going to make accusations, you should at least explain yourself when asked, no?

Edited By ChrisP on 1082755527

Posted: **Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:33 pm**

[color=DFC99B]I like cheese. ;o)[/color]

Posted: **Fri Apr 23, 2004 5:21 pm**

CIK wrote:...Some facts: 1.5 started from life from the original Bungie 1.3 code base and was updated for XP & OS X from scratch. Then had a bunch of stuff from 1.4 was brought in. Next the vTFL/Myth II hybrid game play code was redone by isolated the vTFL code from the Myth II and replacing it with real TFL code. Then the Myth II portion of the game play was reverted back to 1.3 keeping only bug fixes like the archer walk bug...

Wills....1.5.1 Will be the last version of Myth II period. ... 1.5.1 is only being done to provide add some polish to things ...

thanks for the overview CIK. i appreciate knowing the process, and respect that you all are trying to right the wrongs of 1.4.x

couple things i note:
1) the mention of a bunch of 1.4 stuff being ported in, then a note that the m2 portion was reverted back to 1.3 confuses me. you brought in all the whackyness of 1.4 only to remove it?

2) you leave yourself wiggle room for 1.5.1. i say polish 1.5.0 up till its ready, and commit to it as a last release (barring future os changes etc.) you can release a linx version as 1.5 too.

lastly, i think you would be the best person to address the lil rangetest portion of the other proposal thread. why do arch and mort have different downhill ranges in 1.5 than 1.3, if the gameplay is the same?

Posted: **Fri Apr 23, 2004 5:28 pm**

WOAH! Thanks Ghost but I'm married.

tain.totalcodex.net

Whoa....time out folks - My proposal