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Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 5:39 pm
by igmo is disgusted
i posted on this in the bugtracker, with film, and received no reply or comments.
melee with room to run will NOT do so if they are hit or if they bump an enemy. this means that they are certain to die as you frantically click to try and make them run - and the spend all their time turning.
a totally lame inclusion in 1.5
the job was incomplete.
why call this final?
i do have film for this (from fc1 and 1.5), but whats the point in my sending it in if there is no comment/address of the error? you are (rightfully) irritated that ppl complain without offering data or otherwise contributing to a real solution, yet ignore some input that is given.
i respect the effort you put forth in the face of almost constant negative commentary, but i am frustrated over this nonsence.
Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 6:49 pm
by ducky
how do you know this didn't happen in 1.3? As far as melee behaviour goes (just as with pathfinding), I'm fairly certain that some behaviours changed for 1.4 to make units (melee in particular) perform more intuitively have been removed, at the behest of complaining players.
this is clearly a behaviour issue, and one that is directly related to the evolution of melee behaviours from 1.3 to 1.5. So to say it is something wrong, ie. a 'bug', is really too hasty a judgement in my opinion, without a concrete understanding of this behavioural development over each version.
Basically, I think the only way to respond to this is with some sort of definitive analysis of behaviours (including plusses and drawbacks) from 1.3 to the present. Heck, to my knowledge, no one has ever done a definitive analysis of behaviour on any single version.
Someone should do it. I will try, before I leave.
Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 7:30 pm
by Acheron
lol igmo. It is no need to be so rude. From what you are saying.. I think it sounds like how myth has always been. If i had those film id try reproduce the bug in 1.3
Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:27 pm
by igmo
acheron, you have no concept of what rude is - please refrain from defining my posts. (and if i fail to respond to you in the future, its because i am shunning you.)
i do not recall 1.3 melee refusing orders to run or attack other units, or i would not have made this comment.
i recall that this issue was listed in fixes for one of the 1.5 versions, which leads me to believe that it is behavior modified in some way.
perhaps i did not see it while the bug tracker was active, but the 3-4 times i checked back on my report on this for fc1, there was no commentary.
forget it. i'm just sick of it all, and pray to all those holy thingys that there will be no more updates and we can all just play this verion and get used to its issues.
no more changes, it is done. done. done.
Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:44 pm
by iron
Interesting. When I look at the bug report page - http://projectmagma.net/cache/reports/4-1-front.html - I can't see anything from you about melee turning back to fight. I received films in an email from you concerning possible archer walking bugs (which was lag btw as you surmised, plus some instances of archers walking as they were out of range), but nothing that I can see about melee. If you did post it, I'm sorry that I missed it.
Regardless, Myth has always under some circumstances made units turn to fight if while moving away they bump an enemy unit of the kind they'd just targetted. They also do the same if bumping a unit of the kind they'd been told to attack. I'm always happy to view any films & see if its the same in 1.3 mode or not.
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 6:58 pm
by Doobie
sorry igmo, but i'd have to say acheron has a pretty good handle on what constitutes rude (check out some of his older posts for reference 
that said, I don't find your post at the top of this thread rude. Understandably frustrated and irritated but not really rude.
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 8:11 pm
by igmo
well, my apologies. i cannot find any post here (on bugtracker or forum) for this melee action issue. either there is a conspiracy to make me look foolish or the post does not exist. 
i *recall* putting it on the bugtracker, but... well, it aint there.
i do feel the melee is changed - in this way, in pathfinding, in persuit, and in mass group targetting. i can learn to live with all these so long as it never never changes again. never.
(i mean not ever)
there is so much confusion on whether a change in feel is a reversion to 1.4 or 1.3 or a real bug or what - and that is a serious problem, imo. if the app behavior stops this annoying variation month to month, life on planet myff will be much better.
Edited By igmo on 1086743484
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 9:27 pm
by CIK
We had some bad problems with the bug tracker in the early days of it, which may explain why you can't find it. Our goal with 1.5 was to be like 1.3 with certain bug fixes in place. Some bug fixes are just too tricky to pull off also with out lots of testing and more testing. Plus people get too upset about changing things so we elected to be very true to 1.3, since the biggest complaints of 1.4 was that it changed too much game play wise.
Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:26 pm
by iron
I agree totally Igmo ... apart from fixing anything that's obviously a serious bug (eg CL/CK or units plain disobeying orders in ways they never used to - that kind of thing), Gameplay is not going to change again.