tain.totalcodex.net

DO NOT TAKE ANY INSULT PLEASE!!!! NONE IS INTENDED!! Im using CAPS TO POINT THINGS OUT NOT TO YELL DONT THINK ITS YELLING THANKS!!!!!!!

Ok Heres the Deal. People want to know evreything...
i cant tell you evreything.. is there even a Forum thread about all the new 1.7 features from project magma? no there isnt..why i dont know, maybe they want to keep a lid on some things or maybe all of it wont pan out and they dont want to get hopes up for a features that cant be made to work to their satisfaction.

What i will tell you is i was buddies with fisj, Vodi and some loser back well before myth 3 even came out and i allways used to work with them to test things before they went public with the first "myth Dev" (post M3 release) stuff...was i on the Dev team? no i wasnt i was too busy with school.. some loser wanted me to send him my myth 4 story back then but IT and I werent ready to go public with the story for the campain.

I cant belive how many people are saying fearfull things of "what if"
What if take 2 this what if take 2 that. What if the new 1.7 build gets take2's attention and they come and shut down PM and Mnet? IS THAT ENOUGH reason to NOT develop the super kickass 1.7? NO it isnt.

How about WHAT IF we all come together and work on a project that is so kick ass and nearly completed we can pitch it around to Bungie, take 2, Valve software. and others and show we have a WORKING mostly done version of an all new game!! They could think it wouldnt cost too much to put the finishing touches on it..test it a bunch on differnt systems and put it out on PC, Mac and other platforms!

Im sure its fun to think for SOME people, that we all might be doing things that matter SOO much and a big company might come a mess with us BUt to be HONEST, THEY have MUCH BIGGER FISH TO FRY! Read below:

Ben Parfitt reporting February 15 2007 10:30 am


"The former CEO of Take 2 Ryan Brant has pleaded guilty to stock option-related charges and been ordered to pay

settlements totalling $7.3 million.
Next-Gen reports that Brant has released a statement claiming to be “deeply sorry for his role in the inappropriate

manner Take 2 granted incentive stock options”. He is now barred from holding controlling management positions at public

companies.

The former CEO resigned from the publisher three months after the SEC announced it would be looking into Take 2’s stock

option practices.


Prior to this latest ruling, in 2005 Brant and three other former Take 2 executives were ordered to pay $14 million in

an SEC lawsuit concerning alleged fraudulent accounting practices.

No current Take 2 executives have been found at fault in the affair."


Ben Parfitt reporting March 30, 2007 10:00am

New board arrives on same day as Grand Theft Auto IV trailer.
The departure of CEO Paul Eibeler headlines a number of sweeping changes at the top of the US publisher after

shareholders were successful in an attempt to instigate massive changes.

Along with Eibeler, Oliver Grace, Robert Flug and Mark Lewis were also all removed from the board of directors.

Strauss Zelnick, Ben Feder, Jon J. Moses, Michael Dornemann, Michael James Sheresky and John Levy, were all installed as

board members at yesterday’s annual shareholder meeting, with Zelnick becoming the new Take 2 chairman. Former News Corp

senior exec Ben Feder will become acting CEO.

“The Board is working with Paul Eibeler, former CEO and president of Take 2, to ensure an orderly and effective

transition,” a statement from the publisher read.

Zelnick was involved in turning around Columbia Music Entertainment in Japan, as well as previously serving as COO at

20th Century Fox. He's also the former CEO of BMG Entertainment and developer Crystal Dynamics.


“Take 2 has exceptional brands and creative resources, and we are thrilled to be able to work with the many talented

people within the company,” Zelnick stated. “The new Board plans to put in place strategies designed to revitalise Take

2, focus on supporting and enhancing its creative output, improve its margins and ensure that the 2007 release pipeline

meets expectations.

“We are here to maximize the value of Take 2 for shareholders, for game consumers, and for the company's employees.”

Meanwhile, Take 2 studio Rockstar yesterday released the first trailer for its upcoming Grand Theft Auto IV. Confirming

that the game will be set in New York, or at least a Liberty City modelled very closely on it."

Like i said THEY have bigger fish to FRY! their bean counters would never let them spend a bunch of money suing people with no money that would NEVER be recovered if they won.


Evreybody is welcome to join us, Im not an egomanic and i work well with people. i can GET SHIT DONE on a very low budget like NOBODY else in the games industry.


I half-hope take 2 gets wind of this if they do, it would be money much better spent working WITH the community to produce a NEW product, then to spent a bunch of money that could NEVER be recovered trying to sue some guy who has no money and lives off peaches, top ramen and beer. ive got no assests so im not worried. We have no stock..we cant be devalued in any way like a corporation could be with negative judgments against them. If it ever went to court ( and it WOUDLNT) We would get a TON of press on the internet and in game mags. No publicity is bad publicity!

What i see more then anything is people afriad that others might be able to control things myth related as well themselves. and they dont like this idea. what can i say? i wish we could just all work twards a goal and stop worrying.

It might be noted i have worked with Projectmagma members the ENTIRE time during the development of our Myth Phfor The Wind Age project.

It WILL NOT be an all new engine..I looked into many game engines studied them for about 8-9 months and edned up realizing that Myth 2's engine was the BEST thing OUT there for making a "New myth game" with all the "Mythyness" that myth TFL and SB had. I would not consider using another engine or an ALL NEW engine to make a new myth campain, because it would be really easy to make something that is pretty good on its own but doesnt FEEL "MythY" see Myth 3 for a good example..and it was the TFL engine enhanced just like ALL THE OTHER MYTH GAMES.

I just cant win vs the people who really CARE about myth and the sperate faction of mean sprited "haters" out there.

If i call it Myth the Wind Age its just another plugin. If i call it Myth 4 the wind age its just another plugin. if i call it anything people will say "its just another plugin" by that same logic Myth 2 is just another plugin and so is Myth 3. We have a new engine build that is fully backwards compatible that works with myth 2 and has A FEW new features. I wanted to make it because 1.6 was going to be magma's last update it seemed to most people. But with 1.7 there isnt a point to releasing it really..only had 2 things i would want them to add to 1.7 and if they did add them to 1.7 i would erase our build forever. doobie asked me not to release it to the public so we wouldnt have 100 differnt builds out there. This makes perfect sense to me and i have no problem with that. It should be noted though that there are allready many builds of myth 2 out there right now.

I have the Greatest respect for all the Magma guys and im not going to rock any boats.. maybe people should give our team a chance and at least PLAY what we have so far and then talk about how our project is Shaping up.

I know for a fact that "changes to the engine that will increase the needed system specs" is one of the Main big No no's laid down by take 2.

We all can just make maps that have 400 units on it at the same time with a bunch of crazy magic going on and break this cardinal rule.

The Myth 4 The Wind Age Dev team will LEAVE IN ALL THE NORMAL myth 2 and TFL units, MAPS, and gameplay. we arent going to replace normal dorfs with magic dorfs. warriors WONT be REPLACED with warrior colorgaurds that can do a bunch of shit like block arrows when timed right and use sheild wall formation. Our new units will only be ADDITIONS to ALL THE NORMAL BUNGIE MYTH FAIR! so dont wrry about anything being taken away. on netmaps you will have the OPTION of playing "VTFL" " "Classic Myth 2 Units" or "Myth 4 units" nothing will be taken AWAY ONLY ADDED and can remain seperate from each other at most times and on thier own variants of maps be combined if its any fun.

Ooga and I have worked with MANY dev teams over the last 10 years and have watched KICKASS games get destoryed by Dev teams taking out classic gameplay and replacing it with things THEY LIKE. WE WILL NOT DO THIS EVER!!!! it was one of our main points.. so normal wars will still be normal wars.. if you want to you can vet him up after he gets a certain amount of kills by picking up an artifact that he could drop like a medal = leveling up and beccome a warrior captain who can block arrows with his shield if timed well, and wont spent time blocking melee attacks because he only attacks and counter attacks..OR NOT PICK UP THE MEDAL,
its up to the PLAYER. And this WONT BE FEATURED ON THE vTFL and Myth 2 Classic versions of things. Our team is filled with SMART COOKIES with a TON of devlopment experience,

Our team and anybody else who joins with skills that will help create this vision of Myth during the Wind Age will give all myth players an ALL NEW campain/story, as many ALL NEW units as we can ( NEED MODELER/ANIMATORS!)

Whew that took a while to write.. Please post any other questions on the Myth 4 the wind age website at www.myth4thewindage.com

Anybody should not be mad by anything ive said in here. im only trying to anwser questions people have asked me an i tried to give in depth replys and examples to make things more clear.

Now to work on the ALL NEW 256X256 x16 frames of animations Dorf Bottle and Satchle explosions!

-Peach Out

No offense, but the more I hear, the less I feel that I have any idea what you're actually doing.

~J

well, understanding or not I feel you are 100% motivated in doing things for myth and that's a good sign/wind or whatever the myth community needs
people that do

so keep doing whatever you are doing ren and if somehow you deliver the OAKfeature of texturized textures I'll pray and sing your name dude

Archer wrote:No offense, but the more I hear, the less I feel that I have any idea what you're actually doing.

~J

I second this feeling. There are some simple yes/no answers to a lot of these questions that people are asking...

Are you making a plugin (but grander than the usual sense)?

Are you making a new application?

Are you planning on modding the myth engine in ways not normally possible with plugins?

-DA

Well most of the things me and ooga spent a long time talking about that should be added to the engine are coming with 1.7 ~8^)

We talked about how cool it would be if units like Spider Queen could lay eggs that hatch and turn into baby spiders...from what i hear the 1.7 features projectiles turning into units and vice versa so we will be able will do this. Also we talked about a unit like a dorf that could jump off a wall or something and then run around...same thing 1.7 can do things like this when its ready (or so i heard).

i only had a newer version of the myth 2 build produced because magma was done with 1.6 or so we thought....and the one we have is fully backwards compatible anyways.

used it for months on PM and Mnet.

if you want to post any further questions please post on our forums at
www.myth4thewindage.com

or else its like people asking project mamga questions on a site other then magma's

-Peach out

O yea any way to make it so units can attack while moving?
be great if units like...mounted archers didnt have to STOP IN PLACE to attack.

Archer wrote:No offense, but the more I hear, the less I feel that I have any idea what you're actually doing.

~J

If I am understanding the somewhat cryptic 'explanations' provided so far, Ren and the "Myth4" team somehow got access to the Myth II source code and have been modifying it to add features with the intent of releasing their own version of Myth II with their own additional features that they want to call "Myth 4: The Wind Age". This new modified Myth II is allegedly 100% compatible with other versions of Myth II, and would still allow normal Myth II gameplay. Since the announcement of Myth II 1.7 almost all (all but a couple) of the "Myth4" team's new features have been incorporated into the new 1.7 build of Myth II so apparently (this part I am not so clear on) Ren and company are perhaps rethinking whether they need to release their own customized version of Myth II or whether then can just use 1.7 with some facelift to make it look like their own "new" game.

Thoughts.

1) If 1.7 has 95% of the features you want make your campaign and call it that, stop with the grandiose hubris of calling your project a "new" game when it using code that is 99% Myth II (and the work of other developers). New physics and news attacks or spells does NOT make it a new game. Is Myth II Wild West or Leggo or WWII a "new game"? From your descriptions they are much more of a new game than "Myth 4" will be. Give up the Myth 4 title - what you have described is NOT myth 4. It's a Myth II conversion. And not even a total conversion. Just standard Myth with some heavily modified attacks/spells, and some new features. Even Green Berets which was a COMPLETE conversion and was NOTHING like normal Myth II was called "Green Berets: Powered by Myth II", it didn't claim to be a new 'game'.

2. By splitting the source code tree into two branches you are ensuring eventual incompatibility. Unless Magma AND you coded some kind of magic where any enhancements you've added or add in the future will magically rollback and be disabled to some previous version when you play with someone without those features you are guaranteeing red games and incompatibilities. Sure you've been playing with no compatibility issues, but that's because your code is based on the current Magma code. What happens when your code changes, AND magma's change and Magma has features you don't? It's hard enough to find many people to play with even if you just have some non-standard 3rd party plugins - add in seperate versions of the source and it's going to cause problems. And if after 1.7 and your campaign are released and everyone has to play in 1.6 compatibility mode that's going to get a bit old

Stop it.

3. You don't have permission to modify the source code, OR to distribute it.

Just stop it.

4) You don't have permission to use the "Myth" title and have no right to use it to hype your "new" game.

Just stop it.

5) You aren't respecting the rights of the people who own the source code and the trademarks who have let Magma continue to keep the game viable and running on new hardware.

Stop it.

All this said, I really LIKE the idea of a grand new Myth II campaign and I am looking forwards to seeing what your team comes up with IN THE CONTEXT OF A PLUGIN THAT WORKS WITH THE MAGMA SANCTIONED VERSIONS OF MYTH II.

If there is a pirate product being developed with Myth II code obtained without permission from the copyright holders which is going to be marketed as a seperate "game" and distributed publically I am going to do everything in my (admittedly puny) power to stop this from happening. I would rather call Take2 personally and sic their corporate lawyers on your ass then have you jeapordize the ongoing arrangement between Take2 and Magma.

(and no, I have no affiliation with Magma, nor with Take2, nor am I jealous of your project, and yes I have a real life and hobbies.)

Other than echoing VR's sentiments about the pomposity of calling your plugin Myth IV, there is only one thing that bugs me:

We have a new engine build

That, to me, is fucked up like a football bat.

Your cavalier attitude about making a new game with that source when Take2's words on that are clear is downright irresponsible and complete bullshit. Doubly so about your moronic idea of taking a project using code you don't own to a companies other than the owner like Bungie or Valve, who have nothing to do with ownership and wouldn't be able to touch it at all.

Your whiney responses in that other thread in regard to "why do you want to freely distribute it?" now make perfect sense. You don't WANT it freely available because you are full of delusions on making your big break into the gaming world and being some savior of Mythdom. You are starry eyed over becoming the next great thing. You don't want to believe that there is no company that is going to touch this, your vehement responses to that, and now this, shows it all... you have some grandiose idea that you don't want to accept is poorly conceived.

You remind me of Blades and all the underhanded crap he pulled a few years back all in the name of trying to wrangle control... just so he could secretly begin working toward using the Myth engine to begin making a new game. Also, your outright Black Mail that you "won't release your build if 1.7 gets what I ask for" is pathetic... You should know enough that branched sources for the same game is the worst possible thing for this community.

All of that aside, what is most disturbing to me is your irresponsibility and apparent lack of give a shit about the community as it stands. You sure proclaim it, but your actions are all about self-indulgence in your grandiose plans. This community survives ONLY because it is permitted to continue updating it. If that was interrupted, this game would be DEAD. You want to flaunt that and you want to disregard the wishes of the owner who has been nice enough to allow us to work on it; all in the name of personal gain & glory. Yet, you continue on with the justification that "they have bigger fish to fry"? You *KNOW* the risk you are taking and how it will affect everyone, but you continue anyway soley for the pursuit of your own personal goals. If that isn't egocentric behavior, I don't know what is.

I don't know how you got your hands on the source, but whoever gave it to you should have the crap knocked out of them and have their own access permanently cut off.... and I propose Magma find a way to add a signature to their code that the metaserver(s) can check for so we can disallow rogue builds in ranked/tracked play.


Go ahead and make your plugin and call it whatever you want (people will know better anyway)... but NOT at the expense of the community.

Destroy your build and all remnants of it.



God damn.... can't this community go 6 months without some sort of wrecked up drama?

I am not a software/computer career oriented man. I also know very little about the legal issues of Ren and company's venture.
I will say, I look forward to playing a new coop/solo plugin (which I thought this was).
I do not wish to piss off some company and have it hurt the Myth community.
Which is happening..I have no frick'n clue.

P.S. Earn your Schrute Bucks!

All right, I'll clear some things up.

After 1.6 was out, Renwood asked me about increasing the maximum view distance Myth uses. Currently, if you make a map too steep and look down from a hill ... some of the mesh surfaces at the back don't get rendered.

Since this was a fairly trivial change (just changing a number in the code), and wouldn't break anything, I made him a special build with this. Likewise for another feature. These were small features that didn't affect gameplay, so basically it's just 1.6 with a couple minor tweaks.

Now, when we began working on 1.7, I've incorporated those changes into 1.7, so those special builds shouldn't be necessary when 1.7 is released.

There is no huge conspiracy theory going on here.

Thank you for clearing that up.... and now I wonder why the cloak & dagger crap and the pretending that it is more than it is.... or even mentioning it at all?

The website does say

Currently, the test release is in the form of a tagset plugin for use in the Myth2 application. Standalone applications will be available in the near future.

Myrd wrote:Now, when we began working on 1.7, I've incorporated those changes into 1.7, so those special builds shouldn't be necessary when 1.7 is released.

There is no huge conspiracy theory going on here.

I trust you Myrd, Oh beneficent adder of good features to Myth, but if that's all Ren is talking about, WTF is he talking about?

Seriously.

Alternate builds that incorporate 3 years of development of "Myth 4"?

Needing C++ programmers to work on....what exactly?

Calling a campaign "Myth 4" when it is really just Myth II with some new units and physics?

Talking about releasing this new myth-branded 'game' without Take2's permission and trying to market it to other companies for sale?

WTH?

let me repeat. WTH?

At the risk of repeating myself, Ren, drop the "Myth 4" from the title, admit that you are creating a grand new maybe groundbreaking campaign for Myth 2 and NOT creating a brand new game, and leave it at that. Let reality be reality.

I AM looking forward to trying out your new campaign!

Now lets see what good old wikipedia has to say about me not calling our campain myth 2 The renwood addition.
"A prequel is a work that portrays events which include the structure, conventions, and/or characters of a previously completed narrative, but occur at an earlier time."

Damn you guys are filled with HATE it seems ~8^) Please Read this CAREFULLY and dont just zip through it.

PPE and rake let me see... you seem to not pay very close attention at all....how many times have i told you that ALL THE MYTH GAMES ARE BUILT ON THE TFL ENGINE/CODE? ive said that sooo many times and you NEVER EVER RESPOND to that simple fact. you choose to ignore it evrey time.
so by your own logic myth 2 isnt a new game and myth 3 isnt a new game.
half-life (quake 1 engine modded) isnt a new game and half life 2 episode 1 isnt a new game and also half life 2 episode 2 isnt a new game and half life 2 episode 3 wont be a new game if we follow your logic of what a "new game" is.

To PPE i say this...When we are ready and we pitch it around to game publishers, what should i say "and now ladies and gentlemen ...Blank plugin"
yea sounds like a great idea PPE. You clearly DONT know anything about the agreements that PM had with take 2 and from what PM guys themselves have started those agreements have expired long ago.
Only thing PM seems to have to follow, is to not do certain things that Take 2 told them not to.
Even Mnet has NO Agreement with take 2 so WE ALL do myth related things because A. Take2 lets us or B because they dont care at all about myth stuff.
or C. like the idea of people adding things to a game they own FOR FREE so people can keep playing it.
PM members have stated more then 1 time that that dont have any contracts with take 2 anymore and when they have contacted take 2 since they are "ignored"
When i say "new myth game" what i mean is

A. ALL NEW CAMPAIN (much like myth 2 and myth 3 did)
B. ALL NEW STORY (much like myth 2 and myth 3 did)
C. AS MANY ALL NEW UNIT MODELS AND 3D building MODELS AS WE CAN GET (much like myth 2 and myth 3 did)

D. New Musical score (much like myth 2 and myth 3 did)
E. All new 2D art and 3D art (much like myth 2 and myth 3 did)
F. Since Magma WASNT going to make anything after 1.6 (or so many of us thought) like i said before i had "a few" things added to a build.
Mainly as myrd said the increased veiw distance for certain maps that we have that needed it and a feature that Exports the stained cratered, burnt and bloody colormap after a game.

G. A BUNCH OF NEW WEAPONS, MAGIC AND ABILITYS FOR UNITS TO ADD TO GAMEPLAY OPTIONS

YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PLAY OUR STUFF IF YOU DONT ALLREADY OWN MYTH 2 SB. you think it wouldnt work with older builds, but it does just fine. people on 1.5.1 played with us. only thing is since 1.5.1 has no inventory switching for units that option wasnt there for anybody else on 1.6 to use during the game.
so Rake you know far less about MYTH programming then you think you do.

1.7 will have so many kick ass things that ooga and i had on our wishlist
that we wont need to use our build as it is now obsolete and as myrd stated they added the few things we had produced for our build to 1.7 anyways (maybe because they were good ideas~8^). so rake please pull the RAKE out of your butt and lighten up dude ~8^)

I only have worked with project magma people the whole time for any changes..they are the only ones we all trust to not screw things up.

I havent tried to misslead anybody AT ALL and it seems SOME PEOPLE CANT BE PLEASED NO MATTER WHAT I TELL THEM.

How much imagination does it take to figure out if you pitch a "new myth game" to a company OTHER then take2 and THEY LIKE the idea they would be willing to try to BUY the franchise FROM take2. geez have a little imagination

If you care so much about myth rake, why dont you still make stuff for it?

Hard to misslead people IF THEY BOTHER PLAYING WHAT WE HAVE!!!!
Its been open to the public since.. I dunnno FOREVER. (around 2 years)

o yea and there is a website to help people learn what we are doing.
www.myth4thewindage.com

maybe do a tiny bit of detective work guys and stop just posting on projectmagma forums and coming up with negative speculations.

Respond to what i have stated this time rake.....unlike all the OTHER times.

now cant we all play nice and blow each other with dorfs like civilized Mythers? ~8^)

-Ren (trying to put an end to flame war in a nice way FOR REALS HEHE)

Now any chance of getting that 1.7 features list post Guys ~8^) ?

Um...as fascinating as all this is, maybe it would be best to keep it in one thread? I keep getting deja vu.