tain.totalcodex.net

I moved my reply from the recent Anywhere thread to a separate post to be sure those interested in a Marathon Anywhere could pitch in:


Vinylrake is correct: I am not familiar enough with the Marathon game (I've only played a dozen or so times), nor with all the different tagsets made for Myth (SitH, ISOYG, MaraMyth) to know where to start.


What I need to do a Marathon Anywhere are answers to the following:

(1) Which of the existing tagsets would be best as a foundation? What is the latest version of that tagset? Is the author currently active in the Myth Community? Provide links and contact info (if it exists).

(2) What are the various units? Describe them each briefly (good/evil/neutral/ambient, melee/missile/both, uses ammo, transforms from X to Y, uber-powerful, uber-weak, etc.).

(3) Are there gameplay issues? Problem units? If so, describe.

(4) How would the units best be categorized into the following basic types (they can overlap - one unit can fill multiple categories - STEALTH=Pathfinders):

• GIANTHERO
  GIANT
  GIANTSPID
  DWARF
  DWARFHERO
  MORTAR
  MORTARHERO
  ARCHER
  ARCHERHERO
  TOUGHMELEE
  MELEE
  WEAKMELEE
  HERON
  GHOL
  FETCH
  WARLOCK
  HEALER
  HEALERHERO
  WIGHT
  STEALTH
  BARON

(5) [Optional] Are there additional substitutions beyond this list that would make sense? Something just for "Poachers", etc.?

(6) Is there specific ammo that units use? What units can use what ammo? Describe.

(7) Anything else about the game I should know?


If we can complete the above checklist, I would be happy to take a serious stab at making a Marathon Anywhere. I've got all the unit and projectile substitution scripts well-polished, and we could put it in the next version of the Multi Pak when completed (along with some updates to Dorfball Anywhere I have in the works).

When all the items are checked off the list above, it would take me just a week or two to crank this baby out (unless there are major gameplay issues from the original tagset).

In addition, anyone contributing the necessary information and/or testing will be credited with such in the final plugin.

So... Marathon fans: GET CRANKIN'!!

I just messed around a bit with the ISOYG (I sph't on you grave) plug and tagset. (Available on Udogs, in the gaming -> myth -> total conversions)

(1) it looks quite complete, at least as far as grapics go. Noticed a few odd things, but I would need to test it against a player to tell you correctly.

(2)
As far as units go, I saw:
Pfhor melee and ranged basic infantry, one has a melee attack and one has melee and ranged. Should be weak compared to other units. Evil.

Pfhor troopers ranged gun attack, and shrter range grenade. looks quite powerful (they keel yuo in marathon :p). Evil

Pfhor enforcer and enforcer major Ranged unit, shoots circles of fire very fast. Looks like it has a mana based cooldown time. Evil (most of the time!)

Cyborgs and flame cyborgs Weak hp (NOT like in the game?? ) normal cyborg has a bouncing grenade thing, the flaming one only has a (very powerful, close range) flame thrower. Evil.

BOBs, VacBOBs BOBs are humans with a generic starship crew outfit and a pistol. They shoot, and are fun to kill. VacBOBs have a space suit and a fusion pistol. Both ranged, good.

Simulacrum BOBs fake BOBs filled with explosives. It's the ancestor of the wight

Sph't floating thing in a cloak. It shoots energy balls, evil or good!

Sph't'Kr big robot flying thing with a (deadly?) weapon, but not much hp

Some weird ass melee unit from a marathon TC moves kinda slow and has little HP. I just hope the melee attack is insane! Evil.

lava and water flick'ta I won't even try describing those. They make funny noises. They are supposed to have a ranged attack (they dont seem to have it, but that might be due to limited options in singleplayer?) Neutral

Pfhor drones Little flying robot with very small HP and a ranged attack. Evil

Hunters Halo hunters were inspired from those. Yeah
They don't have a melee attack (!) but fire little bolts from shoulder and have heavy armor. Can be good or evil (mercenaries? I don't remember the story that well )

Juggernaut and major version HUEG flying robot that shoots fireballs and rockets. Evil, uber, deadly, hax, pwn, zomg, etc.

And of course the player Marine probably has ammo it can use, too. Good, has pistols as primary weapon, decent hp..

(3) would need some playing, I have no idea. I'd have to get some people to DL and host it so we could try it. Does OoH have some marathon players willing to test it with me?

(4)
GIANTHERO - Juggernaut major
GIANT - juggernaut
GIANTSPID - ?
DWARF - Cyborg
DWARFHERO - flame Cyborg
MORTAR - Sph't
MORTARHERO - Sph't'Kr
ARCHER - BOBs, Vacbobs, drones..
ARCHERHERO -
TOUGHMELEE - That monster i can't remember the name of
MELEE - flick'ta
WEAKMELEE - Pfhor melee
HERON - player character Marine
GHOL - drones
FETCH - hunter
WARLOCK - enforcer/major
HEALER -
HEALERHERO -
WIGHT - simulacrum bob
STEALTH - ?
BARON - No clue

(5) none that I can think of (unless you can replace all villagers with exploding bobs )

(6) I'd have to do moreexploring. Only the marine uses ammo (and the juggernauts have ammo-limited rockets)

(7) It's made by Bungie. [/b]

Excellent reply, Kythers! Great stuff!

I'll load up the ISOYG tagset and see what it looks like compared to the SitH one. I thought the SitH tagset had excellent graphics and voiceovers (from what I've played of Marathon) so am curious now to see the differences. Maybe you can try the SitH one and see what you think. It's available on the OoH Battle Plan page (just click on the plugin name to download). I also included the SitH Manual (it shows graphics of all the SitH units).

I thought there was one Roadwyrm was working on (Marathon 1 or Marathon Red mb?), but the last post I see on it is May 2007.

I want to be sure we don't start down one path and then most of the way into it someone says: "No - you don't want to use XYZ tagset - ABC tagset is much better!". That would s00k.

Baak wrote:I want to be sure we don't start down one path and then most of the way into it someone says: "No - you don't want to use XYZ tagset - ABC tagset is much better!". That would s00k.

Heh, that's inevitable.

I'd play these things with you guys to test 'em out. I remember ISoYG vaguely, and I'll go download it. If not tonight (Pacific time), mb other nights this week?

ISoYG is on Udogs in files/uploads/myth-related/Myth 2 Maps uploads
( http://hl.udogs.net/files/Uploads/--MYT ... 20Uploads/ )
(boy is that addy ugly!)

Kythers wrote:Some weird ass melee unit from a marathon TC moves kinda slow and has little HP. I just hope the melee attack is insane! Evil.

Not sure what you're talking about here? If it's the Drinniol, that's from the original Marathon, not a TC, and if that's the case it should have a lot of HP and a powerful melee attack. If it's something else I'm not sure what it could be…I haven't messed around with the ISOYG set much. I always liked the SitH tagset.

Kythers wrote:Hunters Halo hunters were inspired from those. Yeah. They don't have a melee attack (!) but fire little bolts from shoulder and have heavy armor. Can be good or evil (mercenaries? I don't remember the story that well )

Hunters are actually genetically altered Pfhor that have been grafted into cybernetic armor suits. They're evil. In Marathon: Infinity the Marine fights alongside them in a few levels, but that's only when he's helping Tycho instead of Durandal.

No the unit I can't remember the nae of.. (I checked just now) is a Devlin.

No Drinniol or Hulks in that plug

And thanks for the clarification with hunters. It's been a while since I played marathon


Frum, tonight you want to try them? I'd be glad to

Edit: Just looked over the SitH manual and they seem to have more units

Should probably go with that one. I guess Frum and I could tell you more after we play it some!

Khadrelt wrote:Hunters are actually genetically altered Pfhor that have been grafted into cybernetic armor suits. They're evil. In Marathon: Infinity the Marine fights alongside them in a few levels, but that's only when he's helping Tycho instead of Durandal.

This is the kind of thing that brings up an additional question for me:

I have the definite impression there are certain characteristics about the various Marathon games (1,2,Infinity - not sure of the specific names). I know people like playing Infinity for Multiplayer - that is, when actually playing Marathon on Mariusnet - but I'm not sure if it is the "favorite" or "standard" that the tagset should include. This is the biggie as far as I am concerned in how to trim it down to the essential Marathon "feel" - should it include Infinity units? Mb not? That kind of thing.


I found the SitH tagset to be really impressive as far as sound effects, voiceovers, and graphics. My impression was the only real improvements that it might need would be gameplay (if something was unbalanced or inappropriate to the series - the first I/we could discover but the later would need to be explained by a Marahon afficianado).

Well, you could make a M1, M2 and Infinity tagsets , + a tagset with everything mixed, if that bothers you. Either way, for balance the only way to check is playing the game!

Kythers wrote:No the unit I can't remember the nae of.. (I checked just now) is a Devlin.

Ah, Devlins. Those are from Marathon: EVIL. They're nasty buggers, for sure.

Baak - if I were you, I'd go with Infinity. It's basically identical to Durandal except for a couple of new features (like the SMG and the VacBobs). They're both quite a bit different from the original Marathon, but all of the Myth conversions out there use the newer Marathon sprites (except for hulks, lookers, and wasps, which were in the original Marathon but not Durandal or Infinity—though some TCs use them, like Rubicon).

Baak wrote:I have the definite impression there are certain characteristics about the various Marathon games (1,2,Infinity - not sure of the specific names). I know people like playing Infinity for Multiplayer.

Infinity's played most because that was the core tagset used by the Aleph One open sourcers to bring Marathon to netplay standards. Infinity also had better handling of more polys: Earlier Marathon versions was more congested and claustrophobic, not a lot of big arenas, because comps at the time had a lot of trouble handling the math for drawing objects greater than 6 World Units distant.

Infinity's a pretty good base set. Marathon One has a whole menagery of creatures that never got popular enough to ake it through to the later versions. There are Wikipedia pages around:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon_Trilogy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon_total_conversions

The Devlin only features in the TC Marathon: EVIL (which, coincidentally, I've just finished playing again.) It acts like a Giant Spider, LOOKS like the offspring of a giant spider and a giant crab, has no range attack, but multiple quick slashing melee attacks, and are a total bitch to kill. It also sounds like a angry bobcat. They're black. In tight halls and caves in EVIL, they scare the living shit out of you. As a Myth unit, they won't work well in open areas.

-Oro

Yay : ) I think that Marathon Anywhere tagset would kick ass but hmm how about making more than one marathon anywhere tagset ?

Lets say "Marathon Durandal Anywhere" ( with Durandal units only ) and "Marathon Infinity Anywhere" (infinity units) or something like that...

The Devlin [...] As a Myth unit, they won't work well in open areas.

try playing Repemption with SitH tagset

Kyth, I'll try to get on tonight around 9 Pacific. Not absolutely positive I'll be able to. I'll try, and if not then let's do it tomorrow evening instead.

I have to be responsible and grade some artwork before class tomorrow!

Gdi, I hate having to be responsible.

I knew there was another Marathon conversion floating around: MaraMyth

Is this one recent? Drives me nuts there is no posting date on there...
Is this one better than SitH and/or ISOYG?

Read the two reviews - one by Myrd suggests using Inventory (aieeeee!)


Think you guys better play this one two, since it's even got maps!

Okay