tain.totalcodex.net

(I'm hoping Welly and VR will check out this thread)

While checking out various contributions on The Tain, I came across the program Apathy by Vista Cartel. It reminded me of all the old Myth programs written back in the OS Classic days which no longer function on present day Intel Macs. We're pretty well covered right now with the modern tools we have now, which perform all the functions the old tools did in a uniform matter.

Note: This will be updated as more information becomes available.

PROPOSED NEW TOOLS

- Single program which combines Apathy's model making with Vegas's model editing
- Application for Intel Macs which convert M1 gor files to M2 format

MODERN TOOLS

- Ballistic (M3)
- Chaos
- Chisel (M3)
- Dialog Editor
- Fear
- HeadEditX (non UB, without the functions of the original)
- Loathing
- Oak
- OmniPatch
- Patchwork (M3)
- Soundblighter (non UB)
- Spite & Malice
- UnTag

OLD TOOLS
(* denoted a program with functionality that is still not found on a modern tool)

- Amber
- Ambience
- Antero
- Apathy*
- ArtiX
- Bartok
- Brimstone
- CLUT Edit
- CLUT Utility
- CORE Edit
- Cutscene Viewer
- Data Extractor
- DeadTags
- Despair
- Extractor
- Fear TFL
- File/M2SB
- Film Difficulty Level
- GeomExpv11.zip
- GeomView
- Gor Autotyper
- Gore
- Header Editor
- Hedit
- Hex Edit
- Ichor
- Jade
- LazyScripter
- Loathing TFL
- LocalFetch
- LPGREDIT
- M2 File Type Droplet
- MacsBug
- Malice 2
- MEEFEDIT
- Mesh App
- Mesh Inspector Gold
- Meshwork*
- MONS Inventory
- MONS Morale
- MONSEDIT
- Myth 1.3 Autotyper
- Myth Browser
- Myth Chat
- Myth Chat Extractor
- Myth Difficulty
- Myth Extractor
- Myth Film Cataloger
- Myth Fixer
- Myth II Autotyper
- Myth II File Placer
- Myth II First Aid
- Myth Inspector
- Myth Keyboard Localizer
- Myth Maker
- Myth Packer
- Myth View
- MythDifficulty
- Mythed
- MythHack
- MythTech
- MythTypeChanger
- PC Header Editor
- Plugin Builder
- Plugin File Type Fixer
- Plugin Patcher
- Plugin View
- PluginLister
- PlugOv
- PlugToText
- PRGRedit
- PROJEDIT
- ReDirector
- Resedit
- Sapphire
- Shade
- Singtonet
- Sprite Splicer
- Stamp
- StliEdit
- Tag Edit (aka TFL Fear)
- Tag Extractor
- Tahoe
- Tartan
- TextToPlug
- Textura
- Texture Pro
- The Fallen Sounds
- The Forgotten Lands
- Topaz
- Twisted Mytal
- Ultra Edit
- Ultra Film Fixer
- UnMacBinary
- Vanity
- Vegas*
- Vengeance
- Weather Edit
- Wrath

I'm sure some in the second list are considered modern tools still, so please let me know and I will make the proper edits.

But the main point I'm trying to make is, are there any old tools which served a function that has not been taken over by a current tool?

One still requires a Mac cabable of running Classic mode to effectively import environment models from a .3dmf model file into the respective .geom, .mode, .core, and .256 tags. One uses Apathy and then Vegas to deal with this process. Meshwork, the most common app used to build the models, is available on UB, but the tools required to get that stuff into myth is not.

Added '- Application for Intel Macs which convert M1 gor files to M2 format' since I don't think there's a way to convert M1 tags to M2 format currently for Intel Macs

Untag and then use Fear?

M1 to M2: why do you need the TFL GOR files converted when there's The Fallen Levels?

I disagree that we are 'pretty well covered right now with the modern tools we have'. For example:

HeadEditX is not nearly as functional as Head Edit (Mac classic). The old Head Edit allowed you to convert tags between M1 and M2. It also allowed you to set flags for the tag (including type/version, etc).

Ballistic: Functional yet missing several features (too many to list here). Fear/Loathing need to be used in conjunction to make M3 maps (a kludge at best).

Meshwork: not really a Myth app per se. Just a simple 3D app for the Mac. There's quite a few simple 3D apps out there right now (search around). Meshworks is handy because it uses such a simple file format and feature set.

Fear/Loathing: according to Activity Monitor, Fear & Loathing 1.7 still show up as PowerPC apps.

Oak: That's funny, I don't recall Oak ever being officially released.

Killswitch wrote:M1 to M2: why do you need the TFL GOR files converted when there's The Fallen Levels?

Kills, for looking through gor items you want to extract for other reasons.

HeadEditX is not nearly as functional as Head Edit (Mac classic). The old Head Edit allowed you to convert tags between M1 and M2. It also allowed you to set flags for the tag (including type/version, etc).

Completely agree with you there. HeadEdit is one app I hope Tars updates to UB with the functionality of the original.

Ballistic: Functional yet missing several features (too many to list here). Fear/Loathing need to be used in conjunction to make M3 maps (a kludge at best).

Hopefully once Blades finishes his site redesign, he can help get some things corrected.

Fear/Loathing: according to Activity Monitor, Fear & Loathing 1.7 still show up as PowerPC apps.

I can see that for Fear. It still seems sluggish even on my Mac Pro. Loathing feels snappy though.

GodzFire wrote:

Killswitch wrote:Fear/Loathing: according to Activity Monitor, Fear & Loathing 1.7 still show up as PowerPC apps.

I can see that for Fear. It still seems sluggish even on my Mac Pro. Loathing feels snappy though.

Snappy ≠ UB.

FWIW, Amber runs 'snappy' in Classic.

So Godz, you gonna program these new apps? You got the ambition. Grab a hex editor and copy of RealBasic/Python/VB/whatever and go to it! Changing the head format should be the easiest; it's only 64 bytes. Use Head Edit (classic) to convert a file from TFL to SB. Then compare the M1 to M2 file and note the changes. Write a quick app to translate the tags and voilá: new Head Edit for UB!

In future versions of Oak, I plan to support more general tag/archive manipulation abilities, like editing headers, searching headers, assembling/disassembling archives, etc.

Sorry Kills, like I said, I struggle terribly with coding and programming. It's one thing I just can't do.

GodzFire wrote:Sorry Kills, like I said, I struggle terribly with coding and programming. It's one thing I just can't do.

You don't make maps either....?

is there a pc editor for model passability maybe in m3 that can work for m2 ?

apathy is os9 vegas for osx beta is buggy.... and no solution for pc... oh oak 124 where for art tho!

GodzFire wrote:(I'm hoping Welly and VR will check out this thread)

While checking out various contributions on The Tain, I came across the program Apathy by Vista Cartel. It reminded me of all the old Myth programs written back in the OS Classic days which no longer function on present day Intel Macs. We're pretty well covered right now with the modern tools we have now, which perform all the functions the old tools did in a uniform matter.

Note: This will be updated as more information becomes available.

PROPOSED NEW TOOLS

- Single program which combines Apathy's model making with Vegas's model editing
- Application for Intel Macs which convert M1 gor files to M2 format

MODERN TOOLS

- Ballistic (M3)
- Chaos
- Chisel (M3)
- Dialog Editor
- Fear
- HeadEditX (non UB, without the functions of the original)
- Loathing
- Oak
- OmniPatch
- Patchwork (M3)
- Soundblighter (non UB)
- Spite & Malice
- UnTag

OLD TOOLS
(* denoted a program with functionality that is still not found on a modern tool)

- Amber
- Ambience
- Antero
- Apathy*
- ArtiX
- Bartok
- Brimstone
- CLUT Edit
- CLUT Utility
- CORE Edit
- Cutscene Viewer
- Data Extractor
- DeadTags
- Despair
- Extractor
- Fear TFL
- File/M2SB
- Film Difficulty Level
- GeomExpv11.zip
- GeomView
- Gor Autotyper
- Gore
- Header Editor
- Hedit
- Hex Edit
- Ichor
- Jade
- LazyScripter
- Loathing TFL
- LocalFetch
- LPGREDIT
- M2 File Type Droplet
- MacsBug
- Malice 2
- MEEFEDIT
- Mesh App
- Mesh Inspector Gold
- Meshwork*
- MONS Inventory
- MONS Morale
- MONSEDIT
- Myth 1.3 Autotyper
- Myth Browser
- Myth Chat
- Myth Chat Extractor
- Myth Difficulty
- Myth Extractor
- Myth Film Cataloger
- Myth Fixer
- Myth II Autotyper
- Myth II File Placer
- Myth II First Aid
- Myth Inspector
- Myth Keyboard Localizer
- Myth Maker
- Myth Packer
- Myth View
- MythDifficulty
- Mythed
- MythHack
- MythTech
- MythTypeChanger
- PC Header Editor
- Plugin Builder
- Plugin File Type Fixer
- Plugin Patcher
- Plugin View
- PluginLister
- PlugOv
- PlugToText
- PRGRedit
- PROJEDIT
- ReDirector
- Resedit
- Sapphire
- Shade
- Singtonet
- Sprite Splicer
- Stamp
- StliEdit
- Tag Edit (aka TFL Fear)
- Tag Extractor
- Tahoe
- Tartan
- TextToPlug
- Textura
- Texture Pro
- The Fallen Sounds
- The Forgotten Lands
- Topaz
- Twisted Mytal
- Ultra Edit
- Ultra Film Fixer
- UnMacBinary
- Vanity
- Vegas*
- Vengeance
- Weather Edit
- Wrath

I'm sure some in the second list are considered modern tools still, so please let me know and I will make the proper edits.

But the main point I'm trying to make is, are there any old tools which served a function that has not been taken over by a current tool?