tain.totalcodex.net

After several years of inactivity I've decided to start playing the Myth solo campaigns again. After finding my old discs and updating TFL to 1.5, I've found that, while everything works the way it should, I can't zoom out as far as I was able to in previous versions.

I'd like to solve the problem, as I find it hard to organize my troops while the camera is close. What am I missing? Was there another update that I missed, or is the zoom out not as far as I remember it to be?


Thanks!

Omos wrote:After several years of inactivity I've decided to start playing the Myth solo campaigns again. After finding my old discs and updating TFL to 1.5, I've found that, while everything works the way it should, I can't zoom out as far as I was able to in previous versions.

I'd like to solve the problem, as I find it hard to organize my troops while the camera is close. What am I missing? Was there another update that I missed, or is the zoom out not as far as I remember it to be?


Thanks!

Though this is not quite the answer you might be looking for, all of Myth 1 can be downloaded as a plugin for Myth 2, with Mulitplayer and single player being seperate plugins.

Also, there is a checkbox to make the gameplay TFL style which along with the plugin gives and authentic Myth 1 experience.

Also, if you want to take it that step farther, you can download the Myth 1 interface for Myth 2, and toggle on TFL selection boxes, TFL gesture Arrows, and Disable Persistent formations.

Otherwise I can't help you with TFL itself, as I don't have it installed.


Single Player Myth 1 plugin for Myth 2: http://tain.totalcodex.net/items/show/t ... -levels-v2

Multiplayer Myth 1 plugin for Myth 2: http://tain.totalcodex.net/items/show/m ... er-mappack

Myth 1 Interface for Myth 2: http://tain.totalcodex.net/items/show/m ... interfaces

Hope this helps.

TFL > vTFL

As far as I'm aware, there has never been a change to the zoom distances? Since you have the disc, you could try running the pre-Magma executable, but it should behave identically.

devSin wrote:TFL > vTFL

As far as I'm aware, there has never been a change to the zoom distances? Since you have the disc, you could try running the pre-Magma executable, but it should behave identically.

You know, I'm curious, since I haven't played TFL in a long time, what are the differences between TFL and vTFL?

Play a game of TFL. Play a game of vTFL.

You should catch on pretty quickly that one is the authentic Myth experience and the other isn't. You may not care about such things, but there are people (like me) who do, and pointing out that you can play TFL in Myth II and further accelerating this great classic toward obsolescence every time there's a question about it makes us sad.

If you're thinking to trap me with the "dwarf hero's bottle hits the ground the exact same millisecond in both"... not gonna happen. :-)

TFL hasn't been updated since 1.5 and it looks like it may never get updated again. Meaning vTFL might be the only TFL experience some people will be able to try as newer operating systems become standard and older ones become obselete. Why not specify what is different between TFL and vTFL... something, anything but don't be too vague. Maybe its fixable for some future Myth 2 update. If it is really as different as you say, then it shouldn't be too difficult to specify an example.

devSin wrote:Play a game of TFL. Play a game of vTFL.

You should catch on pretty quickly that one is the authentic Myth experience and the other isn't. You may not care about such things, but there are people (like me) who do, and pointing out that you can play TFL in Myth II and further accelerating this great classic toward obsolescence every time there's a question about it makes us sad.

If you're thinking to trap me with the "dwarf hero's bottle hits the ground the exact same millisecond in both"... not gonna happen.

I wasn't being sarcastic, I really am curious to know, I thought it was pretty much the same, so I would love to know what's different... No string attached.

Pyro wrote:Why not specify what is different between TFL and vTFL... something, anything but don't be too vague. Maybe its fixable for some future Myth 2 update. If it is really as different as you say, then it shouldn't be too difficult to specify an example.

But I don't play vTFL. Certainly, if that's the only avenue available to you, it's better than not having access to it at all. And it's of course a boon for those who wish to play multiplayer matches with slightly different units and behaviors than standard Myth II.

But with access to the original, there just isn't any compulsion for me to analyze or give a detailed comparison of the two (I think I've proven a little that I can be specific when I want). I believe I could tell if you were playing TFL or vTFL. How or why that is, specifically, just isn't something even on the radar for me to have any precise examples to give you, let alone suggest changes in vTFL. I'd rather just play some TFL. ;-)

(I will note that I've never implied any significance to the differences to say that it's "as different" as I claim. It's different, and it's up to the player to decide how important those differences are.)

Does carpet bombing work in vTFL?

TFL could never zoom out as much as M2 can. M2 has a little extra zoom at the end that angles the camera a little more. This was not present in TFL, so if you're used to M2's zoom it will feel like it's not zooming out all the way.

devSin wrote:But with access to the original, there just isn't any compulsion for me to analyze or compare the two (I think I've proven a little that I can be specific when I want). I could tell instantly if you were playing TFL or vTFL. How or why that is, specifically, just isn't something even on the radar for me to have any precise examples to give you, let alone suggest changes in vTFL. I'd rather just play some TFL. ;-)

You already compared them when you claimed "TFL > vTFL".

I think you have an obligation to be specific here, otherwise it just sounds like you're spreading FUD about vTFL.

Melekor wrote:You already compared them when you claimed "TFL > vTFL".

You can think TFL != vTFL if that's more to your satisfaction.

Unless you're asserting that you honestly could not tell the difference between a TFL game and a vTFL game played one after the other, for any reason, I think it's a bit mean-spirited to accuse me of spreading FUD for simply stating that I'd prefer a true TFL session. (I did change the wording of that quote slightly, as it was probably more forceful and apparently more vague than I'd intended.)

In any case, my interest here was not in proving which is better or trying to convince anybody that they're not the same. It was in trying to assist somebody who came with a question about TFL. Since I've played it recently and am unaware that there have ever been changes to the zoom distance, that was my response. I believe I've explained to Jon God already why I commented about his vTFL suggestion.

Everyone wants to know what is different about it. You've observed a difference, so why can't you just tell us what it is? The goal of vTFL is to be as authentic as possible, so by specifically pointing out the differences, we might be able to fix them in the future.

Well having the original is great and all, but for the people who wish to play TFL with others... and others might not have it or can't run it... vTFL is great. Myth 2 is the most played of the 3 myth games, rarely do you even see a TFL or M3 game online nowadays. So if there is something TFL can do that for some reason vTFL isn't doing the same, letting the devs know would be useful. They can look at it and see if there is a way to do it. As for the whole differences... I hope you aren't talking about some of the collections being Myth 2 instead of TFL, or how pressing T for units without special attacks won't taunt like they would in TFL. Clearly there are a few things Myth 2 has that TFL never did, but most of it can be replicated... physics, maps, attacks, the interface, music, etc.

Khadrelt, yes carpet bombing does work in vTFL. Maybe try it someday. As for the zoom comment, if I recall correctly originally TFL could only zoom out so much... like when you load a map there was no extra zoom. Then in one of Bungie's updates there was an extra zoom added. Which explains why in the tain levels you can see the stalactite (those cave things that hang from the ceiling) models not going all the way to where the player cant see them... instead you can see through their tops when you are at max zoom.

Pyro wrote:Well having the original is great and all, but for the people who wish to play TFL with others... and others might not have it or can't run it... vTFL is great.

Certainly, vTFL is pretty much the *only* way to do TFL multiplayer (except for local groups).

Pyro wrote:As for the whole differences... I hope you aren't talking about some of the collections being Myth 2 instead of TFL, or how pressing T for units without special attacks won't taunt like they would in TFL.

I actually didn't even recall the partial taunts, but you're closer than you'd hope. What I'm describing is largely the "feel" of playing the original (as the OP stated, we're talking solo with the official single-player campaign here, not competitively or coop). I don't think that translates to Myth II (regardless of how identical the mechanics) to say "Just play vTFL" when confronted with a working TFL session (and like stated, I wasn't really compelled to investigate the specifics of what's different between the two, especially when I can just sit down with the game I know is bug-for-bug identical to TFL: TFL). When I play TFL, I play it because I *want* the nostalgia, not because I'm boycotting the improved mechanics of Myth II or because I want to "rough it" for a game or two for some imagined thrill.

I should have clarified that I wasn't suggesting that vTFL was failing to emulate the original gameplay behavior in some way that's actually meaningful. If you were expecting deep analysis of flaws of vTFL, you ended up in the wrong thread. :-)

Pyro wrote:As for the zoom comment, if I recall correctly originally TFL could only zoom out so much...

The first or second TFL patch allowed you to zoom out (you could only zoom in on release). TFL 1.3 and mythdev/Magma patches should all be identical (although, like Khadrelt says, it's still less than Myth II), so I still think the OP is misremembering or has a local issue.

Well, we just figured if you could "feel" a difference, maybe you would be able to specify something, oh well. Some day take a look at vTFL and maybe you will spot something that others haven't.