well this quickly degenrated into ppls entrenched angers... which i guess makes sence, since we all like the game so much (including projectmagma) then we should have strong feelings.
what makes no sence to me is everyone blindly patching their myth file. as soon as there is a release, its the only way to play. if no one patched, we'd not need this discussion. i'm inclined to host opop under 1.4 (or 1.3 even) - perhaps grim will do the same for mwc and we can make a go at breaking the cycle.
what i would love to see projectmagma work on is m3 - mb make a vM2SB on that so we can take our unit-balanced shiffa to the wonderful world of 3d?
Proposal to end all modification of myth
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Spond!Max
You host opop on 1.3 and I guarantee it will fill up. I will even order a copy of myff off of Amazon for that. Then the old school players can be happy having fun playing, Magma can be happy adding mapmaking features and playing their maps, and we can all be like Zappo, a player whom I admire the most of all.
I'd love to see MIII fixed too. Damn expired beta was the thing that caused me to throw that one in the trash. Sad.
I'd love to see MIII fixed too. Damn expired beta was the thing that caused me to throw that one in the trash. Sad.
Ok, I'll bite. If you don't know me (I am not as vocal as some), I'm Myrd and one of the current developers of the Myth II 1.5 update.
Let me start off by replying to the first post, which asked us to stop making any updates to the game whatsoever. By your logic do you want us to leave 1.5b as is? Surely you don't want a beta version of the game to be the last updated, with numerous confirmed bugs (which are fixed in our internal builds and will be fixed in public beta #2 being released shortly). Obviously, public beta #1 had some bugs, but thats the WHOLE POINT of a public beta, dammit! It's to find bugs, so they can be fixed for the final!
Many of the 1.5 "improvements" as you call them, are actually reversions back to the 1.3 behaviour, and surely this is what the public wants all along? If not, no one is stopping you from playing 1.4.x with the numerous bugs that you all seem to whine about that were introduced with it.
In any case, I can tell you for fact that many changes in 1.5 spur from feedback from the players rather than things helping "our own mods". In fact, I am not even a mapmaker, how can I code things that only benefits my own mods, when I don't make any mods. A lot of changes are general bugfixes that anyone (even you people) would agree that they are beneficial rather than detrimental.
For example, previously (all version of Myth II pre-1.5) when units where fading out (either assassin elimination, player drop, world knot enter, etc) there was a chance that they would remain on the mesh in "flinch" mode. This has been reported many times during 1.4, with tons of films being sent to us. In 1.5, this can no longer happen. Do you not agree that this is an improvement.
Now, that was just _one_ example from the many, many, many such fixes that have taken place. Please do not delude yourself into thinking we are doing this for ourselves, and not listening to the public - this is not the case! If you want me to bring up more examples, I surely will.
Edited By Myrd on 1082662031
Let me start off by replying to the first post, which asked us to stop making any updates to the game whatsoever. By your logic do you want us to leave 1.5b as is? Surely you don't want a beta version of the game to be the last updated, with numerous confirmed bugs (which are fixed in our internal builds and will be fixed in public beta #2 being released shortly). Obviously, public beta #1 had some bugs, but thats the WHOLE POINT of a public beta, dammit! It's to find bugs, so they can be fixed for the final!
Many of the 1.5 "improvements" as you call them, are actually reversions back to the 1.3 behaviour, and surely this is what the public wants all along? If not, no one is stopping you from playing 1.4.x with the numerous bugs that you all seem to whine about that were introduced with it.
In any case, I can tell you for fact that many changes in 1.5 spur from feedback from the players rather than things helping "our own mods". In fact, I am not even a mapmaker, how can I code things that only benefits my own mods, when I don't make any mods. A lot of changes are general bugfixes that anyone (even you people) would agree that they are beneficial rather than detrimental.
For example, previously (all version of Myth II pre-1.5) when units where fading out (either assassin elimination, player drop, world knot enter, etc) there was a chance that they would remain on the mesh in "flinch" mode. This has been reported many times during 1.4, with tons of films being sent to us. In 1.5, this can no longer happen. Do you not agree that this is an improvement.
Now, that was just _one_ example from the many, many, many such fixes that have taken place. Please do not delude yourself into thinking we are doing this for ourselves, and not listening to the public - this is not the case! If you want me to bring up more examples, I surely will.
Edited By Myrd on 1082662031
Bug fixes are a different thign entirely than "additions".
Each new version is accompanied by a brand new slug of "increased limits", "additions for mapmakers", and "cool improvements" that has nothing to do with what players want gameplay wise.
That is what people have always complained about. And that is what keeps being ignored or spin-doctored.
Each new version is accompanied by a brand new slug of "increased limits", "additions for mapmakers", and "cool improvements" that has nothing to do with what players want gameplay wise.
That is what people have always complained about. And that is what keeps being ignored or spin-doctored.
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El Tainted Blissarino
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 3:30 pm
Spond doesn't seem to be himself today. He's spoken out against bush and the war, and not risen to the challange of the flames around him. Shocking.
Yeah...maybe PM can somehow implement a way to support 1.3 again. I know there's the whole encryption thingy, but is there any way to get around that?
If not, maybe there's a chance for a new server...what ever happened to that Nova server or whatever it was called that was being set up a while back?
Yeah...maybe PM can somehow implement a way to support 1.3 again. I know there's the whole encryption thingy, but is there any way to get around that?
If not, maybe there's a chance for a new server...what ever happened to that Nova server or whatever it was called that was being set up a while back?
I'm not into that whole "brevity" thing.
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Paranoir
The pub for the beta said:
"It has been tested privately since early January and we believe that, even as a beta, it plays exceptionally well."
Like it or not, this implies that there aren't going to be a whole lot of bugs and we've found most of them and they're dealt with. People are not happy to find out otherwise.
1. You can CK in this - something not possible in Myth II since v1.1
2. You can CL in this - something also not possible since v1.1
The point is to fix the bugs - not create new ones that were fixed by the original developers a long time ago.
"It has been tested privately since early January and we believe that, even as a beta, it plays exceptionally well."
Like it or not, this implies that there aren't going to be a whole lot of bugs and we've found most of them and they're dealt with. People are not happy to find out otherwise.
1. You can CK in this - something not possible in Myth II since v1.1
2. You can CL in this - something also not possible since v1.1
The point is to fix the bugs - not create new ones that were fixed by the original developers a long time ago.
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Spond!Max
TB ... I'm way not "myself" anymore. I needed a break from all this crap, and I don't intend to get back into it either. Trust me ... this is a good thing. I would however, love to become a regular player again.
As for CL and CK, those have to be the 2 most annoying bugs ever ... except maybe the ligtning gun in UT2K4 sucking so badly mb ... but as far as Myth goes, CL and CK are useless as tits on a boar hog.
As for CL and CK, those have to be the 2 most annoying bugs ever ... except maybe the ligtning gun in UT2K4 sucking so badly mb ... but as far as Myth goes, CL and CK are useless as tits on a boar hog.
Each new version is accompanied by a brand new slug of "increased limits", "additions for mapmakers", and "cool improvements" that has nothing to do with what players want gameplay wise.
"Increased limits" are simply limits being increased, they do not change anything gameplay wise, just allow for mapmakers to make maps with more of the thing of which limit was increased. One example of this is how pre-1.5 you were not able to make a game with more than 8 starting locations AND all gametypes. The increased limit for this solved the problem.
"additions for mapmakers" are a little similar. In short, they allow mapmakers to use new features, if and only if the particular map is set up to use them. Old gameplay is not affected, just gives the options for new maps to use the new features, nothing less, nothing more.
"cool improvements" - these can be tricky - but too my knowledge 1.5 has not introduced any that change fundamental gameplay (other than reverting some 1.4 stuff to how it was in 1.3). Obviously, new stuff has been added, like the server switcher. But nothing to fundamentally change _gameplay_. Obviously, 1.5b1 had some bugs and some gameplay stuff ended up changed, this we are not hiding, but those were _bugs_, and it was a _beta_, meaning if players report them, the bugs will be fixed for the final (we believe we got most/all of the reported bugs fixed for the upcoming pb#2).
If you have specific issues that you find wrong with the public betas, please do not hesitate at all to report them to us. Meaningless posts that go among the lines "blah blah blah 1.5 is so much worse blah blah blah" but do not mention anything wrong with specifically are of no value - they do not give us any useful information.
EDIT: btw CK and CL are fixed for Public Beta #2, again to be released shortly
Edited By Myrd on 1082663248
obvioulsy i do not want to play on 1.5, its a beta - i'm willing to play on 1.3 or 1.4.4 and nothing in my logic implied otherwise.Myrd wrote:Let me start off by replying to the first post, which asked us to stop making any updates to the game whatsoever. By your logic do you want us to leave 1.5b as is? ...
Many of the 1.5 "improvements" as you call them, are actually reversions back to the 1.3 behaviour, and surely this is what the public wants all along? If not, no one is stopping you from playing 1.4.x with the numerous bugs that you all seem to whine about that were introduced with it.
...
there will always be 1 to 10 good things you can point to in a patch as obvioulsy worthwhile. my whole point is that many aspects of the gameplay we all came to love have been changed, and there was no need for it. you can point to very wrong things about 1.3, but we all played it and still play myth because it was so good.
yes, there is nothing stopping us from using 1.4.x - so long as we can all agree.
my whole point is that many aspects of the gameplay we all came to love have been changed, and there was no need for it.
Such as? I asked specifically for you people to report these, yet you still reply with vague posts. What exactly and specifically is there wrong with 1.5? Please tell us - as we can't do anything if we aren't actually told what the problem is. (Of note, if the issues you are refferring to have already been brought up, then most likely we have them fixed for public beta #2, however if there is something that hasn't been brought up, please please please let us know!)
You don't get it.
People have been bitching for a year about subtleties. The entire game is subtleties. Repeatedly people have reported bugs only to be abused and told they're crazy. And later to find that "whoops" mb something was changed without anyone knowing.
The history up to and including this point has all brought it to this point.
People are tired of it and are tired of testing only to find new bugs that either never existed before, or are entirely new due to new "improvements".
Magma thinks they're tired of people complaining? The people who play the game are tired of having their game taken away from them, or their game experience tarnished by beta's.
Of course... yet again... wtf do I know.
Good Luck. Have Fun.
People have been bitching for a year about subtleties. The entire game is subtleties. Repeatedly people have reported bugs only to be abused and told they're crazy. And later to find that "whoops" mb something was changed without anyone knowing.
The history up to and including this point has all brought it to this point.
People are tired of it and are tired of testing only to find new bugs that either never existed before, or are entirely new due to new "improvements".
Magma thinks they're tired of people complaining? The people who play the game are tired of having their game taken away from them, or their game experience tarnished by beta's.
Of course... yet again... wtf do I know.
Good Luck. Have Fun.
well, i previously posted two specific bugs with film (trow unstoning and lock shooting up into the air) - i'm there with the helping find errors stuff. i also note there are 57 other entries.
what bothers me about the bugs i posted is that they did not happen in 1.3 or 1.4.x - so something about the continued revision of the application is making all new bugs. this implies to me (though i understand that i may be wrong) that NEW things are being changed, rather than focus specifically on those bugs that are known.
to rephrase my initial proposal, at what point will projectmagma be done with revising myth? if the answer is "when all the bugs are fixed." then i say fix the bugs WITHOUT introducing new features - then STOP. that is what i mean my no more changes - do nothing that will create a new complication which will lead to an infinate progression to m2 v1.99.
when you set out to perform a task (particularly programming) it is wise to give yourself a clear objective and work exclusively to the completion of that one objective.
if you want my impression on what has changed in the gameplay in general...
A) the pathfinding and target selection feels different in 1.5 than 1.4.x. if its because it is now back to 1.3, fine - except i'm sick of it changing. pick something and stop (1.3 is a great option of what to pick.) arch and dorf seem to take a bit longer to decide to shoot if their target is moving.
B) downhill artil range seems a bit longer.
C) unit retargeting is definately changed for the worse (i had a ghol refuse to retarget about 2 secs b4 he actually threw - which sux nuts.) everything is very stubborn about completing a task b4 taking a new one. ghols asked to pick something up will not move until its picked up.
D) downhill splash damage radius seems bigger.
what bothers me about the bugs i posted is that they did not happen in 1.3 or 1.4.x - so something about the continued revision of the application is making all new bugs. this implies to me (though i understand that i may be wrong) that NEW things are being changed, rather than focus specifically on those bugs that are known.
to rephrase my initial proposal, at what point will projectmagma be done with revising myth? if the answer is "when all the bugs are fixed." then i say fix the bugs WITHOUT introducing new features - then STOP. that is what i mean my no more changes - do nothing that will create a new complication which will lead to an infinate progression to m2 v1.99.
when you set out to perform a task (particularly programming) it is wise to give yourself a clear objective and work exclusively to the completion of that one objective.
if you want my impression on what has changed in the gameplay in general...
A) the pathfinding and target selection feels different in 1.5 than 1.4.x. if its because it is now back to 1.3, fine - except i'm sick of it changing. pick something and stop (1.3 is a great option of what to pick.) arch and dorf seem to take a bit longer to decide to shoot if their target is moving.
B) downhill artil range seems a bit longer.
C) unit retargeting is definately changed for the worse (i had a ghol refuse to retarget about 2 secs b4 he actually threw - which sux nuts.) everything is very stubborn about completing a task b4 taking a new one. ghols asked to pick something up will not move until its picked up.
D) downhill splash damage radius seems bigger.
clem is definatley more angry (and informed) about this than i am... but i am so with him on this.Guest wrote:People have been bitching for a year about subtleties. The entire game is subtleties.
the game has been and is being altered subtly. it is the sort of thing that is very difficult to express with a specific thing to change - other than to bemoan the fact that things have been changed. its frustrating for you, and us.
i'll turn my scratched record back on and say that a large group of ppl fell in love with myth for version 1.3 - warts and all. any deviation from that gameplay should be a fix to a specific bug (like the archer walking bug) and NO OTHER CHANGES should be made.
The aditions and improvements to the game are really the only thing that have a chance to keep players playing this game into the feature... the changes have allowed for the opportunity for the game to evolve.. which could help it grow... for the community shrinks all the time and its not due to changes its do to stagnation. So i say make it better and more versitile and to those of you who dont play anymore come back and try it after some of the new features show up in maps and then criticise..
magma is doing a great job of adding features while trying not to mess up existing game play or maps theyve put alot of effort into that and 1.5 shows that..
magma is doing a great job of adding features while trying not to mess up existing game play or maps theyve put alot of effort into that and 1.5 shows that..