in reference to your poll:
essenctially the only difference between
-create a version that is 1.3 with bug fix + vid and OS support
and
-everyone play version 1.5 (when complete)
is the melle (click of death) issue and being able to play maps like Mazz and Blue and Grey and others that are being made (not only by project magma). While some unintentional gameplay modifications have been made, this is not the goal of 1.5 and everything is being done to bring the gameplay in line with 1.3. No one wants gameplay changes.
Proposal to end all modification of myth
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Orlando the Axe
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Orlando the Axe
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Also I don't understand why certain people come back to these forums who do not even play myth anymore (nor really did much in the first place), just to criticize those who are actually doing work on it. What do you gain by doing this? Constructive criticism like Igmo's is welcome and appreciated, but others haven't even taken the time to play the 1.5 beta#1 then please refrain from propagandizing against it.
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Orlando the Axe
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I think another point that hasnt been brought up by any of Magma's members yet is the fact that it IS a beta, and due to that fact the testers of this beta are 'seeing' more 'bugs' than before.....an example of this is puss packets not exploding. I've heard many people complain in games of 'OMFG that f00king puss didnt blow...what BS'. The funny and simple fact is (and I was one of those players beforehand....afterwards I realized I was wrong) it's EXACTLY as it always has been. The fact that the game they are now playing is labled as a 'beta' means they think anything that goes wrong is a bug. Save your film and put it into 1.3 gameplay mode like Iron has done on so many occasions to test reported 'bugs' and what do you find? it's identical. The even more funny (not to mention ironic) thing about this is, when puss is chucked at them and it doesnt explode...it's not a bug...it's simply great luck on their behalf. At this you have to question how many things people complain about while playing the 1.5 beta are actually bugs, or simply figments of the player's imagination.
As for all you people complaing about 'Omg it should just be 1.3 and that's that.' a version 1.3.2 (which enabled osX play only) WAS released....there is absolutely nothing stopping you from playing it. The only thing you'll run into is that you wont have anyone else to play with....why? Because not everyone shares your opinion. I hear talk about how Magma's members are doing it for THEIR hobbey to enhance THEIR gameplay and fun.....but let me reverse it upon you....isnt requesting EVERYONE left playing myth to go back to 1.3 just as selfish and bad as what you proclaim magma is supposedly doing? That's what I see at least..
And now to adress the enhancements and features......As Myrd pointed out, these have zero effect on standard maps and plugins made prior to 1.5 (or 1.4 for that matter...it had a slew of new features as well) but only have effect on the NEW maps including these features. Now I can understand how those that do not create maps and mods for others to have fun and enjoy see this as simply stupid and pointless...why bother.....however I would think those of you that DO make maps, or have in the past (Yea I'm directing this at you clem) should understand what these new limits enable you to do. Without some of 1.5's newest features (such as artifact switching) plugins like Laws of Evil would never be possible.....and from what I hear it is going to be the pride and joy of Magma's creations. What is wrong with these? It doesnt do anything to standard gameplay...so why is it a problem for those of you that dont make mods?
Finally to adress some of the REAL bugs that have occurred, yea CK and CL were brought back accidentally......I might get this slightly wrong, but I was talking to Iron or Myrd the other day and he said that the 'fix' bungie employed for the CK and CL in M2 v1.2 was the very CAUSE of all the bugs you complain about...archer walking bug, targetting bug etc.....It has nothing to do with vTFL, but by fixing those other bugs certainly some less obvious ones will reoccur. This brings us back to the reason it's a beta.....if it were ALL to be internally tested, no doubt some bugs would slip through.....without the small community of players left to give feedback....it would have just as many complaints as 1.4 did on it's initial release. The point of giving public betas is to fix that shit first and when it's released as a final, it wont have bugs. The end.
P.S. I know some of you will highly disagree with my opinion and views on this but...there you have it. I have experience in this stuff as I have been testing 1.5 since pre-public beta.....believe me people, without the hours and hours and hours these people have given to a COMPUTER GAME it would be FAR more buggy than it is now.
As for all you people complaing about 'Omg it should just be 1.3 and that's that.' a version 1.3.2 (which enabled osX play only) WAS released....there is absolutely nothing stopping you from playing it. The only thing you'll run into is that you wont have anyone else to play with....why? Because not everyone shares your opinion. I hear talk about how Magma's members are doing it for THEIR hobbey to enhance THEIR gameplay and fun.....but let me reverse it upon you....isnt requesting EVERYONE left playing myth to go back to 1.3 just as selfish and bad as what you proclaim magma is supposedly doing? That's what I see at least..
And now to adress the enhancements and features......As Myrd pointed out, these have zero effect on standard maps and plugins made prior to 1.5 (or 1.4 for that matter...it had a slew of new features as well) but only have effect on the NEW maps including these features. Now I can understand how those that do not create maps and mods for others to have fun and enjoy see this as simply stupid and pointless...why bother.....however I would think those of you that DO make maps, or have in the past (Yea I'm directing this at you clem) should understand what these new limits enable you to do. Without some of 1.5's newest features (such as artifact switching) plugins like Laws of Evil would never be possible.....and from what I hear it is going to be the pride and joy of Magma's creations. What is wrong with these? It doesnt do anything to standard gameplay...so why is it a problem for those of you that dont make mods?
Finally to adress some of the REAL bugs that have occurred, yea CK and CL were brought back accidentally......I might get this slightly wrong, but I was talking to Iron or Myrd the other day and he said that the 'fix' bungie employed for the CK and CL in M2 v1.2 was the very CAUSE of all the bugs you complain about...archer walking bug, targetting bug etc.....It has nothing to do with vTFL, but by fixing those other bugs certainly some less obvious ones will reoccur. This brings us back to the reason it's a beta.....if it were ALL to be internally tested, no doubt some bugs would slip through.....without the small community of players left to give feedback....it would have just as many complaints as 1.4 did on it's initial release. The point of giving public betas is to fix that shit first and when it's released as a final, it wont have bugs. The end.
P.S. I know some of you will highly disagree with my opinion and views on this but...there you have it. I have experience in this stuff as I have been testing 1.5 since pre-public beta.....believe me people, without the hours and hours and hours these people have given to a COMPUTER GAME it would be FAR more buggy than it is now.
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Spond!Max
Orlando the Axe wrote:Also I don't understand why certain people come back to these forums who do not even play myth anymore (nor really did much in the first place), just to criticize those who are actually doing work on it. What do you gain by doing this? Constructive criticism like Igmo's is welcome and appreciated, but others haven't even taken the time to play the 1.5 beta#1 then please refrain from propagandizing against it.
OTA. I can answer that. I gave years of my life to things like MWC, the League of Orders, and other stuff for the community. I captained ploaf into the finals of MLM2 againt Civil (who of course kicked our ass), which is not that bad considering you say I never played much in the first place. Know who never plays? When is the last time Magma showed up to play with the reggers on Playmyth? I have no idea, but if the current bullshit is any indicator, I'd say nothing has changed since I retired, and that means Magma is still just as out of touch with the remnant of faithful reggers on Playmyth.
Magma's goal has always been to starve out anyone who doesn't fit their definition of a Myther. That's fine! Have at it! I am encouraging this, ok? Why? because I come back, and all I see is the same "please stop messing with the game" and the usual response "no, you're wrong. we're making it better" It's not getting any better, so I repeat:
those who like 1.3 play that. I'll help with a new server or whatever. Just don't ask me to do ranked. I'm no Vish or DB. I'm just a database guy.
let Magma play 1.infinity with their clique til they silly themselves to death with unlimited units and game types.
You want people to stop propagandizing against it? How about Magma starts listening to the community for once. I remember everyone calling qwerty insane, stupid, retarded, wrong, and just about anything else. Yet he still comes in here, month after month, year in, year out, with the exact same complaints. Good on you qwerty. Good on you. And good on Magma. Eventually you'll drive everyone away and reach your goal of being able to tinker with this shit until eventually you can cyber with it with each other.
Igmo, you get opop going with 1.3, I'm there.
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Orlando the Axe
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I actually wasn't talking about you Spond 
(specifically because I didn't see what you said as negative before this post). Anyway we really are trying to pay attention to the community and what it wants (I think you will see this if you read the threads about specific bugs as opposed to the ones about "all of the things wrong", we had a 1.5 wishlist before we released the beta etc.). One of the main goals of 1.5 is to make it more like 1.3 (and I think it has done so, you might agree if you gave it a shot, though you might want to wait til beta 2 comes out very shortyly).
(specifically because I didn't see what you said as negative before this post). Anyway we really are trying to pay attention to the community and what it wants (I think you will see this if you read the threads about specific bugs as opposed to the ones about "all of the things wrong", we had a 1.5 wishlist before we released the beta etc.). One of the main goals of 1.5 is to make it more like 1.3 (and I think it has done so, you might agree if you gave it a shot, though you might want to wait til beta 2 comes out very shortyly).a quick note...
unless further bugfix releases beyond 1.5 are found to be necessary, 1.5 itself will be the final patch for myth 2 in a very, very, very long time, if ever.
there are mapmaking changes in 1.5 that i as a mapmaker am not willing to go back on. there are clear bugfixes from 1.3 and 1.4 that i as a player am not willing to go back on. if/when i find what i percieve to be bugs or problems with the game or how it plays, i send films to iron and give full descriptions. everyone in magma wants 1.5's final release to be as stable and solid as can be, so we can move the fuck on and away from it and have at least some satisfaction with it (and start playing with each other in different ways if someone's hyperbole is taken seriously).
*sigh*
this is turning out longer than i intended. ("big surprise, coming from a magma member!" say the peanut gallery.)
at least this time we don't have some damnable fool splitting the fucking source on us preventing valid bugfixes from being submitted, eh?
unless further bugfix releases beyond 1.5 are found to be necessary, 1.5 itself will be the final patch for myth 2 in a very, very, very long time, if ever.
there are mapmaking changes in 1.5 that i as a mapmaker am not willing to go back on. there are clear bugfixes from 1.3 and 1.4 that i as a player am not willing to go back on. if/when i find what i percieve to be bugs or problems with the game or how it plays, i send films to iron and give full descriptions. everyone in magma wants 1.5's final release to be as stable and solid as can be, so we can move the fuck on and away from it and have at least some satisfaction with it (and start playing with each other in different ways if someone's hyperbole is taken seriously).
*sigh*
this is turning out longer than i intended. ("big surprise, coming from a magma member!" say the peanut gallery.)
at least this time we don't have some damnable fool splitting the fucking source on us preventing valid bugfixes from being submitted, eh?
*toot*
SpondMax, you don't need a new server to play 1.3 - sure PlayMyth doesn't support it, but MariusNet does allow for unencrypted connections (ie for pre-1.4 versions of the game). So if people really wanted to play 1.3 - the server part is not an issue, MariusNet is there.
As for:
Let me say two things, first is a quote of myself of one thing that's defintely better in 1.5:
That's one thing that's better in 1.5 - you cannot deny this. There a ton of such things, let me give you another (and every time you try to say how theres nothing good in 1.5, I will keep adding one more such thing to my next post, to show you that there is good in 1.5):
In 1.4, 1.3, 1.2, 1.1, etc, when you click on "Multiplayer" from the main screen it would take signficantly longer to load that screen than in 1.5. Try it for yourself, fire up 1.4 and click "Multiplayer", then do the same in 1.5 - is this not an example of something being better in 1.5? There are tons more like this, do you want me to give you more examples?
Edited By Myrd on 1082679721
As for:
It's not getting any better,
Let me say two things, first is a quote of myself of one thing that's defintely better in 1.5:
For example, previously (all version of Myth II pre-1.5) when units where fading out (either assassin elimination, player drop, world knot enter, etc) there was a chance that they would remain on the mesh in "flinch" mode. This has been reported many times during 1.4, with tons of films being sent to us. In 1.5, this can no longer happen. Do you not agree that this is an improvement.
That's one thing that's better in 1.5 - you cannot deny this. There a ton of such things, let me give you another (and every time you try to say how theres nothing good in 1.5, I will keep adding one more such thing to my next post, to show you that there is good in 1.5):
In 1.4, 1.3, 1.2, 1.1, etc, when you click on "Multiplayer" from the main screen it would take signficantly longer to load that screen than in 1.5. Try it for yourself, fire up 1.4 and click "Multiplayer", then do the same in 1.5 - is this not an example of something being better in 1.5? There are tons more like this, do you want me to give you more examples?
Edited By Myrd on 1082679721
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Guest wrote:
Despite all of the changes and "Improvements" ... the number of people playing Myth has only declined.
How untrue, the last time i was on, which was like, oh last year (friggin' parents and their stupid rules about grades and using my computer) there were about 4500 + people.
I checked yesterday and there are about 10k + players. Obviously not all online at once. I dunno what is it these days about 60 or so players online during certain hours of the day?
<changes subject>
Here's how I see it, yes Magma keeps adding little things and increasing projectile limits, etc. I haven't really noticed too much of a difference, and I've been a lucky one where the only problems I've had with 1.5b1 are minor. But IMO, most of these things are great (but sometimes to me, seem like they only add them in for added shine).
Okay, that didn't make too much sense but I'll leave it in anyway...
Ideas:
Perhaps PM.net could set up their server so that you can play using versions 1.3 and above. This would allow more people who want to play what they want, to play what they want. Of course you'd have to take that up with PM.net
Another idea, maybe Magma can add in a setting option where it makes the gameplay like 1.3, 1.4 or whatever. I dunno if this could be done, but I'm supposing its like the TFL thing right? Correct me if I'm wrong.
Or, since so many people are complaining about gameplay changes, only make map making feature changes in future versions so that players wouldn't have to download a new version if they didn't want to and map makers would have new features to use.
I'm just thinking out loud here. What do u think?
Vidmaster's Oath:
I pledge to punch all switches, to never shoot where I could use grenades, to admit the existence of no level except Total Carnage, to never use Caps Lock as my ‘run’ key, and to never, ever, leave a single Bob alive.
I pledge to punch all switches, to never shoot where I could use grenades, to admit the existence of no level except Total Carnage, to never use Caps Lock as my ‘run’ key, and to never, ever, leave a single Bob alive.
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Myrk
ok, two things i really wanted to hear from projectmagma have been said.
A) 1.5 is intended to be 1.3 gameplay. (the fact that 1.4 films dont play in 1.5 supports this claim)
B) 1.5 is intended to be the last patch in a long long time.
all we need now is for the "intended's" to be "will's".
if the changes in the feel of targeting and pathfinding are really the fact that 1.5 is back to 1.3 in those areas, then 1.4 was an abomination of which we shall never speak. we'll all play for a few weeks and things will seem normal again.
that said, i cannot help but look at your readme for 1.5b1 and see that items a (unit picking own target), c (unit will complete atack b4 move order) and f (unit will attack enemy in front with preference) are all gameplay changes. this makes me a bit skeptical about this reversion to 1.3. particularly given the opening statement of the readme is that 1.5 fixes 1.4.x bugs -- not 1.5 returns myth gameplay to 1.3.
A) 1.5 is intended to be 1.3 gameplay. (the fact that 1.4 films dont play in 1.5 supports this claim)
B) 1.5 is intended to be the last patch in a long long time.
all we need now is for the "intended's" to be "will's".
if the changes in the feel of targeting and pathfinding are really the fact that 1.5 is back to 1.3 in those areas, then 1.4 was an abomination of which we shall never speak. we'll all play for a few weeks and things will seem normal again.
that said, i cannot help but look at your readme for 1.5b1 and see that items a (unit picking own target), c (unit will complete atack b4 move order) and f (unit will attack enemy in front with preference) are all gameplay changes. this makes me a bit skeptical about this reversion to 1.3. particularly given the opening statement of the readme is that 1.5 fixes 1.4.x bugs -- not 1.5 returns myth gameplay to 1.3.
<pirateking> wrote:Or, since so many people are complaining about gameplay changes, only make map making feature changes in future versions so that players wouldn't have to download a new version if they didn't want to and map makers would have new features to use.
although that sounds reasonable, if something fundamental like number of projectiles is changed, then it can only be played if the mapmakers and players have the same version. a mapmaker can't create a map in version 1.y with 2048 objects and have a player play it on 1.x when he can only see 1024.