Having play'd my fair share of Mazz games, and with Legendary becoming easier to beat, I believe it's time to start thinking about and working on Mazz VI. I talked to ChrisP last night and from what I understood, Jagman, you were the main guy for this map. I don't want to make myself sound like I am doing this myself, I would just like to be part of the next version of this excellent map. I've been with Myth since TFLs demo came on MacAddict's monthly disk, and was a plugin creator during the early years of Myth 2. I hope that there are some of you who remember me (member of the Crusaders of Light •Çø£•).
Anyway, I've been doing a lot of thinking about what could be done in Mazz 6. Here's what I got so far:
+ New enemies (keeping in mind that Bah'al was the master of undead)
- Berserk, Heron Guard, and Warrior ghosts: they are as simple as a collection reference to make
- Bonemen from Chimera: fit right in as a wave to fight
- The Demon Lord from Chimera: a mini-boss like the Beh's, Lich, and such
- Changeling from Chimera: another mini-boss, which we could increase it's size
- A Forest Giant ghost: the perfect replacement for the Myrk Giants, which really don't fit in Myth history-wise (I am trying to keep everything as accurate in the timeline as possible). Utilize the FG's unused throw special, a perfect replacement for the things the Myrk Giant throws
- Ghasts: a vastly underused unit in my opinion and a great fit here
- TFL Mahir: you gotta admit that errie black thing with razor sharp teeth was cool especially the blood spray for their attack. Made a bit weaker, a perfect unit to attack in sets of 3s.
+ New friends
- Fir Bolg Captain: The Herons have the Paladin as their dude, why not have one additional leader of the archers?
- Dwarf Leader: To replace one of the Demos.
- Skrael: Just a thought....
+ Current unit alterations
- Forest Giant: instead of his special being his taunt, why not do the unused sequence of him bending down and picking up something, but also causes a mandrake bush to appear. Wouldn't that be cool?
- Demo: the consensus of most people I play with is that the Demo is the unit no one wants. Let's change that by upgrading him a little. Boost his resistance to attacks. Include an emergency attack punch like the Fir'Bolg do. It can be easily accomplished using his bottle throw animation. Finally, because he's the 'Demolitionist', why not let him throw 2 lit bottles using TFL physics? They were pretty wild.
- Archers: the only ones without some type of original special. How about giving each of them 1 fire arrow to start with. It's not much but at least it's something.
- Wraiths: personally, I just hate them. They are the cheap ones. One thing which angered me about Mazz 5, is that you never die by having too many units to fight, it ends by your units being stoned. My suggestion is to take their stoning ability away, perferably let the Behs be the only units able to stone, since you have the fair chance of seeing them before they attack. Let the wraiths have a primary attack, and then 'de-vet' as their special
- Paladin: Numerous people had commented on how he should be immune to pus attacks just like his Heron Guard counterparts. I agree.
+ Spells and Weapons
*Mazzarin*
-- Telekinesis: a great spell, but it's range should really be infinite, if that's possible.
-- 'Spell Of Revelation': Think Deceiver's spell, only for Mazz.
-- Paralysis Explosion: The wight's explosion which can be cast at a distance, like the Shards.
-- Lightning Sword Attack: Rabician's special attack from frenzy, but from Mazz using the sequence of him holding an Eblis Stone.
-- Teleportation: I don't know if this is possible but from what I remember a map utilized this feature. Mazz could teleport from one place to another.
-- Spell Of Recovery: The answer to complaints about Mazz being the last unit to survive but turned to stone and unable to fight. This would let Mazz "unstone" himself.
-- 'Aura Of Multiplication': A cool spell I just thought of. For a limited amount of time, Mazz will will be aided by duplicate copies of himself.
*Fir'Bolg*
-- Bow of the Wight: A arrow that causes a wight explosion upon detonation. Would have the puss trail for arrow contrail.
-- Bow of Assistance: Upon impact everything within a limited area would have their health restored. Uses the purple healing contrail for arrow.
-- Bow of Dwarven Artillery: The Pathfinder's special but with some unlit satchels and bottles mixed in as well. Red smoke contrail.
PHEW!!!! That too a LONG time to do. There's what I got. Thoughts, comments, questions, and suggestions would be very appreciated. *goes to rest*
Mazzarin's Demise 6 / VI - Thoughts / Suggestions / Comments
GodzFire wrote:Having play'd my fair share of Mazz games, and with Legendary becoming easier to beat, I believe it's time to start thinking about and working on Mazz VI. I talked to ChrisP last night and from what I understood, Jagman, you were the main guy for this map. I don't want to make myself sound like I am doing this myself, I would just like to be part of the next version of this excellent map....
...Thoughts, comments, questions, and suggestions would be very appreciated. *goes to rest*
You make em, I'll name em, we share authorship. gg!!!
Mazz 6 subtitles:
Son of Mazz
Mazz Needs a Hip Replacement
Mazzaroni, The Myth Francisco Treat.
The Mazzhattan Transfer
The aMazzing Wallendas
and last but by no means least, Gimble on the Mazzochist
Edited By woof on 1135219903
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kickenwing
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Souly (TFS)
Well im haveing problems to make my own plugin...just to complicated.
What about all the units that was in mazz5 and add the rest of the Nine VS the rest of the Fallen LOrds that will the best.
Makeing Balhor(Connac the wolf)the last Boss or even betta than that make THE Leveler the last boss!
* The 9 VS The Fallen Lords
* The last Boss Leveler
* Let the Fallen come with there units like The Summoner with his Myrks and Myrk G.
Bahlor with his Trow... u get the idea.
*The rase that the trow killed in makeing of the Great Defoide add one of them to the good dudes.
Hope u like my ideas if not gonna use them plz teach me the ins and out how to make maps,units,plugins or a manual? plz
Coz i would love to c this in a map even if i have to make it myself.
ps Like ur ideas.
What about all the units that was in mazz5 and add the rest of the Nine VS the rest of the Fallen LOrds that will the best.
Makeing Balhor(Connac the wolf)the last Boss or even betta than that make THE Leveler the last boss!
* The 9 VS The Fallen Lords
* The last Boss Leveler
* Let the Fallen come with there units like The Summoner with his Myrks and Myrk G.
Bahlor with his Trow... u get the idea.
*The rase that the trow killed in makeing of the Great Defoide add one of them to the good dudes.
Hope u like my ideas if not gonna use them plz teach me the ins and out how to make maps,units,plugins or a manual? plz
Coz i would love to c this in a map even if i have to make it myself.
ps Like ur ideas.
Hey GodzFire, good luck with this project. Somethings to note:
If you're going to use the tags or mesh from Mazz V as your starting point, you won't be able to add any monster tags, object tags, local projectile group tags, or map actions (not safely, at least) without removing some first. All these things are filled up to the max. I wouldn't try to make more monsters visable at once then already occur on Mazz V either.
As for you spell suggestions:
I wish. 64 world units is the maximum range for an attack though - unless you try the accelerated promotion trick ala Mort Splash Shell or WWII RPG, but then it wouldn't be anywhere as accurate as you need for Telekinesis.
If you mean converting units, I'd be careful. Do that to the wrong unit and the entire script will crumble like a house of cards.
That's a sweet spell but it can crash the game if used on certain units (like the stock M2 Shiver) so I dunno if it is safe enough to use on a long coop map.
It's possible, but messy, and requires scripting to work.
You can make a unit switch artifacts while stoned, but you can't get them to initiate any sort of attack, and that's what this would require. You could maybe find a work around with some complex scripting though.
These bows basically exist in Mazz V already. There's two dozen different bows in all, some so rare I'm not sure if they've all been found yet.
If you're going to use the tags or mesh from Mazz V as your starting point, you won't be able to add any monster tags, object tags, local projectile group tags, or map actions (not safely, at least) without removing some first. All these things are filled up to the max. I wouldn't try to make more monsters visable at once then already occur on Mazz V either.
As for you spell suggestions:
-- Telekinesis: a great spell, but it's range should really be infinite, if that's possible.
I wish. 64 world units is the maximum range for an attack though - unless you try the accelerated promotion trick ala Mort Splash Shell or WWII RPG, but then it wouldn't be anywhere as accurate as you need for Telekinesis.
-- 'Spell Of Revelation': Think Deceiver's spell, only for Mazz.
If you mean converting units, I'd be careful. Do that to the wrong unit and the entire script will crumble like a house of cards.
-- Lightning Sword Attack: Rabician's special attack from frenzy, but from Mazz using the sequence of him holding an Eblis Stone.
That's a sweet spell but it can crash the game if used on certain units (like the stock M2 Shiver) so I dunno if it is safe enough to use on a long coop map.
-- Teleportation: I don't know if this is possible but from what I remember a map utilized this feature. Mazz could teleport from one place to another.
It's possible, but messy, and requires scripting to work.
-- Spell Of Recovery: The answer to complaints about Mazz being the last unit to survive but turned to stone and unable to fight. This would let Mazz "unstone" himself.
You can make a unit switch artifacts while stoned, but you can't get them to initiate any sort of attack, and that's what this would require. You could maybe find a work around with some complex scripting though.
-- Bow of the Wight: A arrow that causes a wight explosion upon detonation. Would have the puss trail for arrow contrail.
-- Bow of Assistance: Upon impact everything within a limited area would have their health restored. Uses the purple healing contrail for arrow.
These bows basically exist in Mazz V already. There's two dozen different bows in all, some so rare I'm not sure if they've all been found yet.
For Souly. Your ideas are cool, I've had similiar thoughts about making maps like that. You might be interested to know an attempt to use most of the fallen lords in a coop has been made by Pyro. Go to http://www.geocities.com/kingpyrro/myth.html to check it out. Also the new UTBexpansion by ChrisP allows the use of Alric, The Deceiver, Shiver, and Soulblighter, but in multiplayer only. I have thought of making a map that would be a multi or coop plug that focuses on the battle of/for "the Head". But I have to finish the map I'm working on now, "Dream of Death". Everytime I think I'm done with it a new bug or idea pops up. One of my latest is to add a 'dark' version allowing the player to control some fallen lord-like units.
For Godz. Although a Mazz VI would be cool, I feel the same way CP does: That if the limits in Myth 2 aren't raised how can u make it any better? In addition, it's his creation and let him make a Mazz VI if there is going to be one. Your best bet would be to make a tagset for Mazz V that adjusts the units to your preference, ie: switching fg ghosts for mgs. A tagset should be very doable for you and would accomplish most of what you want to do anyway.
Good Luck
For Godz. Although a Mazz VI would be cool, I feel the same way CP does: That if the limits in Myth 2 aren't raised how can u make it any better? In addition, it's his creation and let him make a Mazz VI if there is going to be one. Your best bet would be to make a tagset for Mazz V that adjusts the units to your preference, ie: switching fg ghosts for mgs. A tagset should be very doable for you and would accomplish most of what you want to do anyway.
Good Luck
That if the limits in Myth 2 aren't raised how can u make it any better? In addition, it's his creation and let him make a Mazz VI if there is going to be one. Your best bet would be to make a tagset for Mazz V that adjusts the units to your preference, ie: switching fg ghosts for mgs. A tagset should be very doable for you and would accomplish most of what you want to do anyway.
Some responses:
ChrisP wrote:Hey GodzFire, good luck with this project.
A man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a Heaven for? -Robert Browning
Edited By capital on 1135732144
I don't see why having more units is mandatory to making a successful map =S
There are a ton of fun maps out there that use only a handful of units. Many good solo/co-op maps barely exceed a few hundred enemies.
Mazz's lure is that while having a ton of units, the overall balance/tactics/randomness make it extremely fun. If you want to make another Mazz or Mazz-like map without upping the limits, then try other ideas for units, different styles of enemy attack or any number of other changes.
Hell, a mod which changes all the mazz units while leaving the map intact could make for an awesome and completely new gaming experience if it's different in some way or other.
There are a ton of fun maps out there that use only a handful of units. Many good solo/co-op maps barely exceed a few hundred enemies.
Mazz's lure is that while having a ton of units, the overall balance/tactics/randomness make it extremely fun. If you want to make another Mazz or Mazz-like map without upping the limits, then try other ideas for units, different styles of enemy attack or any number of other changes.
Hell, a mod which changes all the mazz units while leaving the map intact could make for an awesome and completely new gaming experience if it's different in some way or other.
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