Sav wrote:- F10 doesn't always put boxes around all the visible units, and units may lose the health box as the camera moves. Would be nice if F10 was a consistent toggle button, so that when "on" all visible units have health boxes.
This is what I didn't get in 'tb's' post. If this stuff is all optional and only activates in plugins that utilise it, how do people even know it's there without playing with it?
Bugfixes and extra mapmaking features... to me it sounds like a great deal but I suppose I'm insane!
Well my point is more like "Why should we, the casual myth player, have to download a 30 meg patch just for mapmaking features that can be turned on or off?" I don't like the gameplay fixes, but I can deal with that.
If ever at some point I wanted to log on for a few games, now I would have to load m2 and then download a HUGE patch. 1.3 was only a few megs. On a 56k that's a lot, but it could be done. Now, the casual player who maybe has been away for a few years but would like to play a game or 2 would have to wait for a huge dl. At that point, most people would just say f-it and move on to halo or something ;o
oh and ps: DA -- i post here when I get all my assignments done at work and have nothing else to do. Can't really go outside, cuz bossman might need me for something else ;o
and I would have played 1.3 continuously (grim and I talked briefly about making 1.3 the official version of mwc04) but the encryption means that 1.3 doesnt work on playmyth
Well, firstly the current patch is 15mb (11 for windows), not 30, and I can't see any reason why that size would increase. Heh, a few megs is a lot on 56k? I'm still on 56k and regularly download much larger files, but whatever. I agree though that if the update were closer to 30 it would become a real issue for the casual player.
And yes, why would the casual player want to update to something with optional mapmaking features, ie something he has no use for? Well, that's why future patches will not be mandatory. If current players want to stay with 1.5.1 they can do so & it'll work perfectly well with later updates. They'll only have to update if they want to play some new map that uses the advanced mapmaking features. A new player will get the latest 15mb update - whether its 1.5.1 or 1.5.2 it shouldn't make a difference.
Besides, every update does get attention to things like OOS bugs, performance issues and sometimes neat new features like a windowed mode on Windows, so its not all just mapmaking. To be honest I've actually been more interested in the non-mapmaking ideas in this thread.
Unfortunately there's nothing we can do though about playmyth's insistence on encryption. The myth client will work on servers that don't need or support encryption, so its purely a server issue.
TB you quit Myth and I quote because 'I played the game for 7 years, I've grown up - I'm an adult with a kid now'. Suggested you're bored of it since you got better things to do. If its old and you're bored of it, don't complain about changes?
I think a fair point is that you should take PlayMyth.net's insistence on encryption into account when looking at ability to play 1.3. Face it, its the only place most people will find any Myth games to play at all.
I've been perfectly happy with updates for 1.5.x, and in solo I can play just like I did prior to 1.4.x. In terms of multiplayer, I noticed big improvements in 1.5 over 1.4.
the current patch is 15mb (11 for windows), not 30
Actually, a patch to update from 1.5.1 to a beta of 1.5.2 is only around 2mb. Any future patch releases should come with the option to upgrade from the last version as well as from 1.3.2 and tb's major concern will be nullified.
ChrisP wrote:My solution is to never read in-game chat in the first place. Who wants to be distracted when there's all this glorious carnage to admire? That's like watching TV while having sex.
Zak, you should register for this forum, silly.
Well at times the in-game chat will actually take up space on the screen, distracting me from the carnage.
No point in me registering if all I get is a picture, a post count, and quote. Unless of course I got access to a beta tester forum or something...
If you are going to release something, then just fix these:
People crash if you alt tab during the "waiting for the other players" thing after you start a game. IT'S ANNOYING. I think that happens if you alt tab during the post game waiting screen too.
You still can't see your losses in the post game statistics if you were playing lmoth or stampede.
Can't remember anything else. "Map making features" are irrelevant since no one will play those plugins.
Guest wrote:"Map making features" are irrelevant since no one will play those plugins.
There are still some of us around who enjoy playing new maps, so new mapmaking features aren't by nature useless - BUT, there is a potentially large negative that needs to be weighed - e.g. Is the new "feature" going to break something that used to work? I know you Magma coders probably have something about this tattooed backwards on your forehead so when you look in a mirror you are reminded of this, and I know that activating some unused mapmaking feature *shouldn't* change gameplay at all I could imagine scenarios where an "unused" mapmaking/unit related flag or bucket is used for some obscure undocumented purpose by the game engine.
There are too many old maps to test to make sure everything still works right after new mapmaking features are added, and the number of maps that take advantage of the new feature is going to be a drop in the bucket in the myth world - so the advantages to new mapmakers and the # of new maps that will be written for these new features should be weighed against the potential negative to gameplayers who play older maps. If the Myth community is going to survive I think it depends on both continuing to have new products (maps/plugins/features) _and_ on ensuring that all the old legacy stuff continues to work.
Of course I am not fluent in Bungiecodese so my fears may be completely unfounded.
ps. I am glad Magma has been continuing to develop Myth 2. Probably my favorite changes since 1.3 are being able to see my underwater units, having the plugins sort seperate from the maps, and as a player being able to see the plugins that are active for the game about to start. I am sure someone else has mentioned it (I didn't read through all 15 pages in this thread) but giving the Host access to the plugins tab would be a "very good thing"â„¢. That would make hosting WAY easier imo.
BUT, there is a potentially large negative that needs to be weighed - e.g. Is the new "feature" going to break something that used to work?
On top of taking all reasonable precautions to ensure no old maps break, the current plan is to make new updates entirely optional. You don't need to update to 1.5.2, for instance, to join a game where the host is on 1.5.2 - unless the plugin being hosted requires 1.5.2. If you're a player like grim who has no interest in ever downloading or playing any new maps, this should never be an issue. You even get the best of both worlds if you do upgrade since both 1.5.2 and 1.5.1 applications remain in your Myth folder and you can launch either one to play, depending on the circumstances.
I think grim's comment about no one playing new maps is just a flame to see if he can get a rise from a bunch of mapmakers. I mean... AvA, Mazz V, RDF, DoD, UTB, WoR... all recently new maps and any time you log on to play on PMnet (at least during US evenings) you will see at least one or two of these being played. It's not even uncommon for the majority of players logged on to be playing new maps.
Still, there really are two camps of players: those only interested in what's being played in ranked over and over again, and the unranked players who tend to prefer diversity and new maps. I find it hard to believe the future of Myth is secure in not adding anything new. Inevitably, even the most die-hard Recon player is going to get bored of the same thing day after day, year after year. On the other hand, those who want innovative new maps are much more likely to stay around longer as long they get them.
I've read all sorts of theories on why the Myth community keeps getting smaller and smaller: not enough new players, too many noobies, too many people behaving like jerks on PMnet, too many rules about not acting like a jerk on PMnet, a new map ruined Myth, a new Magma update ruined Myth, etc, etc... The truth is the VAST majority, more than 99% probably, quit playing because they got bored. Even those with the excuse that they no longer have time to play almost always still have free time for other leisure activities that they now prefer. It's that simple, and it is to boredom that we'll lose the remaining 99% of players.
In the pursuit of keeping the game alive, I think Magma's greatest priority should be to try to keep the game from getting old and boring.
Problem is, there is simply no room on the screen for some of this stuff. For example, the reason you don't see your losses in LMOTH or Stampede, is because other statistics take up that space (ie, the time held and time captured for lmoth). Similarly, the reason the Host doesn't have the Plugins tab is because there are buttons that take up that part of the screen for the host.
Yes, but people who rag on mapmaking updates make it sound like people who play new maps are a tiny minority.
If people who really liked 1.3.2 are this enormous majority, surely there's enough of them around to easily set up games over IP? In which case there's no reason for them to download anything over 1.3.2 at all, so they can quit their whining.
Okay I got the models but now I'm too dumb to do anything with 'em
I sort of got bored with Myth around the end of 2003 and I didn't touch the game for a year (not seriously, anyway.) I only came back because of the Myth Jumpers, and now testing at PM.net.
