Peasant cavalry unit - does anyone remember

Eddaweaver · Post by **Eddaweaver** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:08 am

I vaguely remember a unit of a peasant riding on a horse being released. I think it was from Bungie. Does anyone else remember it?

TheHelmet · Post by **TheHelmet** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:00 am

It was actually a peasant riding a pig, the swineherd unit, it can be found on uDogs hotline > unit plugs

vinylrake · Post by **vinylrake** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:26 am

TheHelmet wrote:It was actually a peasant riding a pig, the swineherd unit, it can be found on uDogs hotline > unit plugs

A nicely tweaked/tuned version of the bungie 'swineherd' unit ( with animations smoothed out, axe attack fixed) can be found in the "Leagues from Somewhere" map (which is itself a mod of the Bungie map "Leagues from Nowhere").

http://www.orderofhpak.com/OoHDownloads.php

Eddaweaver · Post by **Eddaweaver** » Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:06 pm

Have you seen the EULA on that plugin?

Post by **TarousZars** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:45 am

Ouch. That makes Creation EULA's look generous and user friendly.

A-Red · Post by **A-Red** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:01 pm

So they put a modified Bungie unit on a modified Bungie map, and then had the nerve to get anal about copyright?

For lack of a more elegant way to put it...lmao.

Edit: maybe that's unfair, I don't know what else is in there. Having some trouble with the link.

Industry · Post by **Industry** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:10 pm

The "they" you are talking about is Baak, a frequent poster here, and a pretty prolific creator. I'm guessing he just wants to know if people are making plugs with something he made/modded and is sick of plugs without the readme. But who am I to say, since we could just ask him directly.

A-Red · Post by **A-Red** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:29 pm

Yeah, I probably shouldn't have said anything, since I haven't actually laid eyes on this EULA. I just got that impression from the other posts. My apologies to Baak.

:embarassed:

William Wallet · Post by **William Wallet** » Wed Jul 19, 2006 11:39 pm

I don't know what this EULA says... but doesn't one relinquish all rights to their stuff as soon as it is put into Myth tags?
I'm pretty sure that's what the Myth readmes say anyway... to be honest, anal EULA's just make me want to misuse the downloaded plugin even more.

Eddaweaver · Post by **Eddaweaver** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 12:51 am

I would post the contents of the EULA, but it explicitly forbids that.

vinylrake · Post by **vinylrake** » Thu Jul 20, 2006 11:14 am

TarousZars wrote:Ouch. That makes Creation EULA's look generous and user friendly.

Are you talking about the EULA for the website itself or the Leagues map?

The website EULA is rather extensive, but the one for the map seems pretty normal as far as non do-whatever-the-hell-with-this style read-mes go, all it includes is:

A statement about the map being free so no warranty is included.

A statement saying you aren't allowed to reuse items from the map without written permission.

A statement recognizing Bungie and or Take2 copyrights.

TA paragraph which lists explicitly and in great detail the kinds of things in the map which were created by the author and which Baak is claiming copyright.

A repetition/expansion of the prohibition against using parts of the map without permission of the author.

A thank you.

A link to the ooh website.

-------------------

Baak · Post by **Baak** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:34 am

Hey Guys--

Basically I spent several months fine-tuning my mod of the Leagues from Nowhere map to add the Uber Ghol Riot game (as Vinylrake will no doubt recall in dozens of late night test games!), and after having encountered a problem with someone regarding an artisting endeavor I was engaged in about the same time I decided to add the EULA in there to cover my own creative work.

Another reason I got started on the EULA thing was that I did not want people posting my creations on alternate download sites for the simple reason that people don't keep them up-to-date and people sometimes separate the readme's from the plugins. I had people downloading a Rocket Dorf Fest that was seriously outdated... In addition, I do not give permission for anyone to put them on for-profit media of any kind without getting my ok first - not that the odds of this are high, but I prefer to have something like that covered in advance.

I'm releasing the modified Swineherd unit to be used on tons of maps (it substitutes for standard stampede units on most maps) - and will do my best to get it posted on the OoH Downloads page before the weekend for you Eddaweaver (I just got back from a 10-day business road trip and it's 3:40am as I type this). I'm also releasing the UGR game as a plugin that allows you to play it on almost any map (this is extremely fun and uses a feature that Myrd/CIK were kind enough to add to the upcoming Patch 1.5.2).

When it comes right down to it, I am much more interested in people playing the stuff I create and/or discussing the creations themselves than worrying about an EULA.

I've simply had some bad experiences in the past and don't have much faith in people asking first. So sorry if I turned anybody off.

I'm going to be reorganizing the remainder of my creative work and repackaging/revising some things to their final versions, so perhaps I will redo the EULA's in them as well (they are a bit terse).

(P.S. Some of the custom font colors people were using before the forums switched to phpBB are mighty hard to read!

)

StoneCold · Post by **StoneCold** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:30 am

Baak wrote:(P.S. Some of the custom font colors people were using before the forums switched to phpBB are mighty hard to read! )

Unfortunately, the old forum system automatically appended the font color code to each individual post. There's pretty much nothing I could do. :-\

Post by **TarousZars** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:31 am

I guess its lines like this that bug me.

You are not allowed to distribute this plugin in any form without prior written permission from the author, including, but not limited to, posting on download sites or placing on media of any kind (whether for-profit or not-for-profit).

Both the written permission part, and the but not limited to part. It basically says that without a legal document signed by the Author I cannot give a copy of this plugin to anyone. Even if they are on 56k and just want a CD of cool plugins.

Now I know there's really no way you(Baak) would know if I did this. And I'm sure you really don't even care. I guess it's just sorta the thought that counts. I totally understand your reasoning, and I don't think less of you as a person for it.

You are not allowed to modify this plugin or extract original content created by the author for any reason whatsoever without prior written permission from the author.

This also bugs because I guess I just always thought that everyones plugins should be a free for all to allow more maps and plugins to be made. Those EULA's aren't even a big deal when someone like you is still active in the community, it's not that hard to send an email. It's when you finally move on and all your current email addy's go dead that its a problem. Then if people respect your EULA's, it means all your hard work on myth goes into a black hole, and if someone wants to do something similar they have to waste time duplicating work.

My 2Â¢

vinylrake · Post by **vinylrake** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:20 pm

TarousZars wrote:Both the written permission part, and the but not limited to part. It basically says that without a legal document signed by the Author I cannot give a copy of this plugin to anyone. Even if they are on 56k and just want a CD of cool plugins.

A strictly overly legalistic interpretation would be what you said, but my take on that kind of restriction is to make sure that distributing the file is limited to the author. e.g. If I say "you can't distribute this file from a website" that's well and good, but what about an ftp site? or a hotline site? or what about a myth map plugin podcast? It's impossible to identify all the present and future ways of distributing electronic files so making it a more global "without the permission of the author" covers possibilities the mapmaker might not have envisioned.

That said, legally you can't burn a copy of a CD you own and sell it over a website. But under 'fair use' guidelines you could make a copy and give it to a family member or a friend or two without being prosecuted. IF you sell it you are screwed, if you share you aren't. I would think distributing a map to a friend or a few friends via email or CD would fall under the 'fair use' guidelines and you wouldn't be too far afoul of the straight and narrow. Just don't sell them to your friends or offer them for sale from a website. [The uDogs TFL CD collection springs to mind here]

TarousZars wrote:
You are not allowed to modify this plugin or extract original content created by the author for any reason whatsoever without prior written permission from the author.
This also bugs because I guess I just always thought that everyones plugins should be a free for all to allow more maps and plugins to be made. Those EULA's aren't even a big deal when someone like you is still active in the community, it's not that hard to send an email. It's when you finally move on and all your current email addy's go dead that its a problem. Then if people respect your EULA's, it means all your hard work on myth goes into a black hole, and if someone wants to do something similar they have to waste time duplicating work.

I agree that it would be NICE if everyone's plugins were freely available but unfortuately what SHOULD be isn't what IS.

I like to respect EULAs and copyrights, but my personal thoughts are a bit more layered than yes or no. I see several layers of severity.

1) If something has no EULA/readme or there is no wording one way or the other about borrowing the content I will attempt to contact the author before distributing anything to see if it's ok to reuse the material - though if there is no EULA there often is no contact information either. In that case I will credit the original author for the borrowed content.

2) If something has a restrictive EULA and I can get permission, then I will reuse it - giving proper credit to the original author.

3) If something has a restrictive EULA and I can contact the author and the author says NO then I won't reuse/redistribute it.

4) If something has a restrictive EULA and attempts to contact the author are unsuccessful I *might* reuse the content and redistribute it but I WILL include credit/authorship for the reused parts. Giving credit to the original author shows a good faith effort not to steal or claim someone elses work as my own creation. Of course IF the original author contacts me and asks that the borrowed content be removed I will stop distributing the map/plugin containg the borrowed content. [Also, if something has a restrictive EULA and it was a commercial product it's REALLY not a good idea to reuse or redistribute content without permission. (e.g. Green Berets)]

Not necessarily a strict legal interpretation but I think it's basically a fair way to deal with the question of re-using content which was publically distributed and which itself contains (often) re-used content itself (from Bungie's standard tags).

The larger philosophical question is whether a map.plugin that uses ANY standard Bungie tags can be restricted by anything other than Bungie'e EULA/copyrights. e.g. Whether the part of a creation that is original but created under certain usage agreements from Bungie can dictate the distribution or reuse of the entire creation when the creation also contains components covered by Bungie's original copyrights. I don't know if this question has ever been settled?

The Tain

Peasant cavalry unit - does anyone remember