On the phone the other day, I gave Ren some alternative names. The only one that was slightly considered was, "Myth 4: Armed Villagers and Naked Fetch".haravikk wrote:Don't want to be picky, but if you're going to insist on calling it Myth 4 (which I still don't really support) would it not make more sense not to end up with two "TWA" abbreviations? "The W*** Age" has already been done
http://myth4thewindage.com HAS GONE LIVE!
Either you know something I don't or vice versa.Doobie wrote:what will open it if not myth2?
you don't have access to the source code, and you don't have anyone creating a new engine for you based on the source code. So how exactly do you plan to materialize some mystical application which will open your plugin, but not be myth?
...and enough with this final product as a plugin stuff.
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iron
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That's not really answering his question. If you have a copy of the Myth 2 source code & intend releasing a modified version of it for your project without licensing it from Take 2 then it is something that needs to be taken seriously. We were told in no uncertain terms that to make a new game using Myth 2's engine would bring them down on us like a ton of bricks, which is why Magma hasn't made a "Myth 4". We'd also have to take a close look at how you may have gotten access to the code - we've tried to keep it from being distributed as, again, if Take 2 thought we were being careless with their property we could be shut down.t o x y n wrote:Either you know something I don't or vice versa.Doobie wrote:what will open it if not myth2?
you don't have access to the source code, and you don't have anyone creating a new engine for you based on the source code. So how exactly do you plan to materialize some mystical application which will open your plugin, but not be myth?
...and enough with this final product as a plugin stuff.
On the other hand maybe you do have a license from T2, or perhaps you intend to use some other engine, not Myth's. If so, why not say that & put our minds at rest?
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Eddaweaver
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How about just say no to naming anything "Myth 4"?Perenold wrote:How about... "Myth 4: Better than Myth 3"!
If developers insist on having "Myth 4" in the title of this new game, how about something like "Ren's great new game which is really, really myth like, and better than myth, but isn't really Myth 4 because he doesn't have permission to use that license"? Or maybe "The project that killed future upgrades of Myth by pissing off the copyright holders"? That would be a catchy name for it.
ps. really, eliminate the mystery - if it's based on an existing non-Myth game engine say so and that will generate some interest and support from people as they can get excited about a new game, instead of the crap you are getting from people concerned about the future of myth by being all cryptic and stuff. A new game with a new existing engine I could be interested in, even in participating on the project of if I thought it looked promising, but volunteer to work on a mystery project based on nothing but (as far as anyone outside the team knows) wishes to create a game from scratch that's better than Myth 2 ? No interest at all.
btw, I didn't realize that Take2 was still selling Myth Worlds (USD$19.95)
Lots of Myth stuff at http://mythgraveyard.org.
Sometimes I put hard to find stuff in my my Udogs folder.
Sometimes I put hard to find stuff in my my Udogs folder.
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iron
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Magma makes updates, yes - but we're not giving away the game. People still have to buy it. We took a big risk in just removing the CD check, but we haven't gone any further. For instance, we could have allowed the demo to load plugins ... but we didn't. We wanted to respect the rights of the game's owner.
A little history. Back in 2003 (or mb 2004, my memory for dates isn't great) Magma approached Take 2 with a proposal to make a Myth 4. This is when our group was still full of active mapmakers & coders, and when we still had contacts at that company.
The proposal took several months to put together & was very detailed ... but in the end Take 2 got cold feet on the idea of making another Myth game. It was made clear to us though that anything we did with the Myth code in terms of a new game had to have their approval. They own the "Myth" franchise and they own Myth's codebase. We have no rights to release updates to Myth 2 or TFL, but they tolerate us doing so because we respect their ownership.
On a personal note, you wouldn't believe how tempted I've been over the years to start work on a set of foundation tags - new units, sounds, artwork etc - for a new game with none of bungie's artwork. Make it myth-ish and adapt the Myth engine to use it, then release it as freeware. Unless I had permission from Take 2 to do that though, I knew it could result in them putting the smack down and telling Magma to give up the code & stop publishing updates.
I've discussed this at length with other Magma folk - CIK, Myrd, Ozone - and we've all agreed that if we ever made a new game it would have to be 100% free of Myth code.
So ... again I'd like to ask - Renwood and whoever's working on "Myth 4", are you using the Myth executables for it, whether customised somehow or not? If so, have you really thought about what the consequences will be? Please, give us some straight answers here as this stuff is important.
Edit: I agree 100% with what VR's said above, including the bit about contributing. And yes, T2 still sell Myth II, which is why I haven't pushed for a "the underdogs" style abandonwaring of the game.
A little history. Back in 2003 (or mb 2004, my memory for dates isn't great) Magma approached Take 2 with a proposal to make a Myth 4. This is when our group was still full of active mapmakers & coders, and when we still had contacts at that company.
The proposal took several months to put together & was very detailed ... but in the end Take 2 got cold feet on the idea of making another Myth game. It was made clear to us though that anything we did with the Myth code in terms of a new game had to have their approval. They own the "Myth" franchise and they own Myth's codebase. We have no rights to release updates to Myth 2 or TFL, but they tolerate us doing so because we respect their ownership.
On a personal note, you wouldn't believe how tempted I've been over the years to start work on a set of foundation tags - new units, sounds, artwork etc - for a new game with none of bungie's artwork. Make it myth-ish and adapt the Myth engine to use it, then release it as freeware. Unless I had permission from Take 2 to do that though, I knew it could result in them putting the smack down and telling Magma to give up the code & stop publishing updates.
I've discussed this at length with other Magma folk - CIK, Myrd, Ozone - and we've all agreed that if we ever made a new game it would have to be 100% free of Myth code.
So ... again I'd like to ask - Renwood and whoever's working on "Myth 4", are you using the Myth executables for it, whether customised somehow or not? If so, have you really thought about what the consequences will be? Please, give us some straight answers here as this stuff is important.
Edit: I agree 100% with what VR's said above, including the bit about contributing. And yes, T2 still sell Myth II, which is why I haven't pushed for a "the underdogs" style abandonwaring of the game.
This is where I let Ren step in, if he wants to. I'm only doing the website and can only answer questions on what I know about for sure. =) Legal issues and game license stuff is beyond my scope of knowledge/info on the project. As far as I know, the final product was supposed to be a standalone app available for free download, not a set of plugins that is loaded into the existing Myth2 app. If that is not the case, then I retract anything I've said previously. I don't want chaos brewing based off of my second-hand information.
If you don't want to support the project, then don't. I'm pretty sure Ren is solid on the name though. Whether or not he wants to switch names or not is beyond me. Either way, if the title itself is enough to turn you off on supporting us, then don't. I do understand the concern by some people a bit better now that VR and iron made it more clear with those last posts. I had no idea of how things worked with Magma, T2 and Myth updates. Putting the community/Magma at risk of not being able to produce further updates is definitely not what we want. Like with the legal stuff, I don't really know details about the game's source code and who has what, or where stuff came from.
If you don't want to support the project, then don't. I'm pretty sure Ren is solid on the name though. Whether or not he wants to switch names or not is beyond me. Either way, if the title itself is enough to turn you off on supporting us, then don't. I do understand the concern by some people a bit better now that VR and iron made it more clear with those last posts. I had no idea of how things worked with Magma, T2 and Myth updates. Putting the community/Magma at risk of not being able to produce further updates is definitely not what we want. Like with the legal stuff, I don't really know details about the game's source code and who has what, or where stuff came from.
Im doing my part! Are you doing yours?
Last edited by Renwood on Thu Dec 20, 2007 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Persica purnus constans dum orbis exustio. Exsequor exequor!
Im doing my part! Are you doing yours?
Last edited by Renwood on Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Persica purnus constans dum orbis exustio. Exsequor exequor!
Im doing my part! Are you doing yours?
Last edited by Renwood on Thu Dec 20, 2007 5:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Persica purnus constans dum orbis exustio. Exsequor exequor!
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