stampede drama in a tournament match

[killerking]

Please read this forums:

http://absolut87.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=4617160
http://absolut87.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=4617168
http://absolut87.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=4617565

Is this a bug or did tvr win for real? I'd say ulms had won that game because we had our targets (pigs) in first.

Killerking

[Myrd]

A glance at the code seems to suggest that it is not the intended behavior.

The code is supposed to break up ties by awarding the win to the team that scored its last pig earlier. Which is not what happens here, I will need to debug why that is.

[Myrd]

Can someone play a game of Hunting and verify whether this bug happens there too or not? (And upload a film if it does happen).

Thanks.

[Eddaweaver]

Myrd,
http://hl.udogs.net/files/Quick%20Uploa ... ormyrd.zip

The test plugin is included.

[ozone]

I looked at that game film and I think the scoring is as it should be. Both teams end up with 2 stamp targs in but the team that wins kills the other team before time expired. Now... if the losing team would have avoided the winning team for another 2 or so minutes and stayed alive they would have ended up winning in a tie.

It seems to me the losing team actually suicides the left over units (no remaining stamp targs) so the other team cant get there targets in. And this strat is IMO the reason the team won the way it did. This would be like doing this: get one target in.... kill all other teams stamp targets except for one then suicide...and win?

[Eddaweaver]

No tie for sinking two each, because one team sunk two pigs before the other team sunk any. A tie would come from each team having sunk their last pig during the same tick, assuming the order which previous pigs were sunk was discounted (if any).
Green Team's dying awarded the two remaining pigs on the other team as having been sunk, but that was after Green Team had already sunk two pigs.

[vinylrake]

This would be like doing this: get one target in.... kill all other teams stamp targets except for one then suicide...and win?

If team A gets 1 target to the goal FIRST and kills all BUT 1 of the enemy targets, it shouldn't matter whether team A is alive until the time runs out or not because with only one target left to get any points with there is no way team B can win. Team A wins because in a stampede tie, the win goes to the team that gets their last target in FIRST e.g. team A.

Stampede isn't Body Count, if you have the most pigs reach the goal first you win the game whether you are alive when the game is over or not.

[ozone]

No I dont agree.

A tie should always go to the team thats alive at end. If both teams are alive at end THIS IS WHEN the tie breaker is the one who got their stamp in first.

What Im saying is Killing the other team IS the tie breaker in that case.

Lets just say in a rare instance both teams get there first Stamp in at the same exact time... and all other stamp targets die... who wins? Would you then say the one that kills the other team?

[Melekor]

Sounds like a bug to me. Pigs should be the *only* factor in stampede scoring, period.

[Graydon]

I agree with Myrd. Stampede is a purely objective based gametype, where Body Count, Capture the Flag, Territories are not. I suspect Flag Rally would score the same way stamp does. In the case of a tie in total flags tagged, the win should go to the team that tagged their last flag first.

[Myrd]

The bug is actually more subtle than what has been mentioned so far.

The following is true. Consider two teams with 2 stampede units each.

Scenario #1:
Team 1 scores 1 unit, has 1 unit left.
Team 2 scores 2 units.
Team 1 kills team 2.

Scenario #2:
Team 2 scores 2 units.
Team 1 scores 1 unit, has 1 unit left.
Team 1 kills team 2.

In both cases, the two teams will have 2 points each. However, in Scenario #1, Team 1 wins, but in Scenario #2, Team 2 wins. In fact, in Scenario #2, if Team 1 did not score its 1 unit prior to killing team 2, it would have won with the current code.

So clearly, there is a bug in the current code.

One argument that Ozone made to me, is that he has previously made a WW2 map with mechanics such that each team has a stampede unit. In the present code, this would result that killing the other team even after they scored their stampede unit would always guarantee a win for your team. Doing the proposed fix would instead change it so that whoever gets there first always wins, and it is not possible to counter this on that map (without changing that map and perhaps adding a custom script).

[Autumn Demon]

The perm scoring in the scissors stamp game doesn't make any sense. I'll repost what posted I on the other forums.

FFA stamp, 3 teams, 5 targets max.

One team scores all 5 targets first, then gets eliminated. Second team scores all 5 targets: at that point they would be second in F7, right? Then the second team eliminates the third team: do they become first because they're the only surviving team? Seems inconsistent with assassin perm ranking. Of course this could never happen in assassin 2team, only ffa.

If you're going to fix stamp scoring then fix terries scoring too (everyone in the tournament community favors the original tie breaker method).

[Myrd]

I think the golden rule of scoring in Myth is:

A team should never be able to get ahead of another team by matching that team's score. It should only be able to do so by getting a higher score.

Following this rule, this stampede behavior is incorrect and should be changed, and the current terries tie breaker is correct (the old one did not follow this rule, which was the reason it was complained about in some past MWC and we were asked to fix it).

[vinylrake]

Objectives are what should count in determining who wins games.

That's part of the fun of the different gametypes - they aren't all just 'wipe out the other team and win'.

Myrd is correct.

[killerking]

It seems to me the losing team actually suicides the left over units (no remaining stamp targs) so the other team cant get there targets in. And this strat is IMO the reason the team won the way it did. This would be like doing this: get one target in.... kill all other teams stamp targets except for one then suicide...and win?

Actually, you're that wasn't my intention at all (that ghôl was mine). Because I knew those were their last stampede targets (pigs) and I had a puss left, I tried to puss 1 pig so they could only score one. I know it didn't matter, because matches are only scored as win/loss, but I was just eager to kill one. I was NOT trying to die so they couldn't get their pigs in, in fact I didn't even realize my ghôl was the last unit left.

Killerking