Project Magma on iPad

[GKokoris]

Hey guys. I know it must look a bit disingenuous that I created an account on this forum just to post this topic, but I figured you all would be the most knowledgeable on the subject.

The short version: I would like to make an honest attempt at porting Myth II / Project Magma to the iPad.

The long version: I'm a game developer looking for a passion project while my colleagues work on the nuts and bolts of our indie startup (as an engineer, I'm hopelessly inept at business and would be no help at all). A few days ago we had a conversation about Ubisoft's multitouch-enabled PC strategy game R.U.S.E. and our sneaking suspicion that it may have been developed for the wrong platform. The first legitimate RTS on the iPad, we concluded, could stand to be a phenomenal success.

Dyed-in-the-wool Bungie fanboy that I am, my thoughts immediately went to Myth II. Since it's a game about tactics and doesn't rely on the compulsive multitasking and resource management found in a regular RTS, it's actually a pretty good fit for a touch-only device. I figured it would be the ideal project to sink my teeth into. When I found that, unlike Aleph One, Myth II isn't actually open source, I decided to come here and appeal to the Gatekeepers of the Code(x).

I imagine this is something at least some people would want, considering someone's already tried to pull a fast one on here. Couple of things I am aware of, however:

1. I don't know how this would work legally, exactly. Presumably, I would need to get permission from Take Two or whoever owns the intellectual property rights, not to mention porting rights from Frank C. Earl (about whom I'm afraid I know almost nothing).

2. The work of porting the game would definitely be non-trivial. I'm a fairly skilled engineer but my experience developing for iOS devices is limited right now, so I couldn't exactly bang this thing out in a weekend. I think it would be best to port the engine itself and all of the core interactions, then write an entirely new interface for the iPad (tapping for unit selection, multiple-finger swiping for camera control, etc.), but I have no idea how modular the engine is so there's no way I can tell if this would be a ridiculous attempt.

Anyway, I've rambled enough for one post. If anyone has advice, suggestions, or even if you'd just like to tell me to piss off, any feedback would be appreciated.

-G

[Deqlyn]

Welcome Gkoko


i got nothing to do with magma. I just hate waiting for people to respond so...


sounds ambitious I hope you have good luck with this project.


Jump on marius and lets play a round or two!

[oogaBooga]

Send a private message to Myrd or Melekor to have coding/engine questions answered, they are the most knowledgable in this area. I would pursue your idea with extreme vigor, and there are many people knowledgable about how myth content is created/edited/etc that can help you out with the specifics, myself included.

[GodzFire]

uDogs is the name of the Hotline server we hang out on. It's a combo of a chat place and file host. All you need to connect is a Hotline client program and the address for it (hl.udogs.net).

Do you use a Mac or PC?
- If it's a PC, download Hotline Supertracker: http://www.nailbat.com/hotline/hlclient ... dition.zip
- If it's a pre-Intel Mac, download Frogblast: http://www.macupdate.com/download.php/6 ... t1.2.4.dmg
- If it's an Intel Mac, download Nostalgia: http://arrestedlumen.com/Nostalgia.zip

After that, open the program, and put 'hl.udogs.net' in the server/address field and press connect.

It's much easier to talk there, and the Devs hang out there a lot.

[GKokoris]

Thanks, gents! My schedule isn't exactly flexible these days, but I'll do my best to stay idle on uDogs when I can. Cheers!

UPDATE: I may have some useful information for everyone around Tuesday-ish. Hint: the videogame industry is a very small world.

[Melekor]

Over time Project Magma has reimplemented most of the originally platform specific subsystems with crossplatform APIs: graphics (OpenGL), sound (OpenAL), filesystem (POSIX), networking (POSIX). Input and windowing are still platform specific, though we have a partially working SDL implementation which is meant to be used for an eventual Linux port.

A potential ipad port would require a minor change from OpenGL to OpenGL ES for graphics, and new input and windowing code. The controls would have to be rewritten for multitouch and the game interface/gui would either have to be redone at a higher resolution, or rewritten to be resolution independent. I don't know if there is a maximum disk space limit for ipad apps but if there is and it is low, some kind of compression might have to be implemented for the game files. The game files are about 500 megabytes uncompressed.

A simple port might take a few days to a week to hack together and I could see a full high quality port taking 6 weeks to 4 months for 2 developers and 1 interface artist, depending on design decisions, tradeoffs and additional requirements that may come up like the compression thing.

So technically I think it's quite doable. The obstacle to making it happen is the rights situation. Like you I'm an engineer and not so keen on the business side, but over the years there have been attempts by others to contact T2, and the conclusion has always been that they won't even talk to you unless you can 'show them the money' first.

[GKokoris]

Over time Project Magma has reimplemented most of the originally platform specific subsystems with crossplatform APIs: graphics (OpenGL), sound (OpenAL), filesystem (POSIX), networking (POSIX). Input and windowing are still platform specific, though we have a partially working SDL implementation which is meant to be used for an eventual Linux port.

A potential ipad port would require a minor change from OpenGL to OpenGL ES for graphics, and new input and windowing code. The controls would have to be rewritten for multitouch and the game interface/gui would either have to be redone at a higher resolution, or rewritten to be resolution independent. I don't know if there is a maximum disk space limit for ipad apps but if there is and it is low, some kind of compression might have to be implemented for the game files. The game files are about 500 megabytes uncompressed.

A simple port might take a few days to a week to hack together and I could see a full high quality port taking 6 weeks to 4 months for 2 developers and 1 interface artist, depending on design decisions, tradeoffs and additional requirements that may come up like the compression thing.

Thanks for the information, Melekor. That's actually considerably less work than I expected it to be. I do know that the OpenGL ES 2.0 implementation on the iPad is similar enough to desktop OpenGL that porting the graphics engine would be straightforward, provided your existing implementation is shader-based. If you're using fixed-function, it may take time to move the functionality into shaders, but nothing huge, unless you've secretly hidden a raytracer in there.

I understand that iOS devices play nice with OpenAL, but the filesystem may need some work, since ARM projects in Xcode keep all the resources bundled. Honestly, I think most of the heavy work would be on the interface side. Xcode has an interface builder utility for iOS projects that takes care of most of the low-level windowing stuff, but interface events still need to get plugged into the code somehow. If the existing engine is modular enough, it may be possible to simply map iOS interface events (taps, swipes, etc.) directly to events in the game loop, but you know more about the architecture than I do, of course.

There's no hard limit on download size, as far as I'm aware. The only real restriction is that apps larger than 20MB can only be downloaded over WiFi, not 3G - though this has more to do with AT&T's, ahem, subpar network performance than anything else.

So technically I think it's quite doable. The obstacle to making it happen is the rights situation. Like you I'm an engineer and not so keen on the business side, but over the years there have been attempts by others to contact T2, and the conclusion has always been that they won't even talk to you unless you can 'show them the money' first.

That certainly sounds like AAA publisher behavior, but I'm doing what I can to pull a contact. It may take a hacked-together prototype to do it, but I'm fairly sure that if we can convince them there's a buck to be made, they'll be more amenable to the idea. It's not like it'll take a large investment on their part, and as far as I can tell we wouldn't be literally purchasing or licensing the rights from them, merely developing a product under contract. Nonetheless, all that will have to wait until I can get in touch with someone, but things look encouraging from my end.

-G

[Melekor]

Before we get too far ahead of ourselves I should mention the possibility that some of our devs aren't interested in developing a product under contract and would prefer to either purchase or license the rights.

[GKokoris]

That's understandable. I'll do my best to get you guys in touch with someone at T2 so I don't end up stepping on any toes.

[capital]

Actually, the link you provided is an ouroborosian link to this post. You sure it wasn't a reference to this thread? I've been informed that the Project Magma server became OOS and caused the apparent inconsistency. Rock-on.

[GKokoris]

Hey guys, quick update so you all don't think I've disappeared. A friend of a friend at T2 says she can find the person in biz dev to speak with, and I'll let you know as soon as she does. Melekor, shall I put them in contact with you? Is there someone else who'd want to talk with T2 about the IP?

I'm sorry to have kinda barged into your forums going "WWAAGGH LETS PORT MYTH II TO IPAD LOL WWHAARRGARBL," but the possibility of helping it happen is just too exciting.

[GodzFire]

"WWAAGGH LETS PORT MYTH II TO IPAD LOL WWHAARRGARBL"

I love this

[Melekor]

Hey guys, quick update so you all don't think I've disappeared. A friend of a friend at T2 says she can find the person in biz dev to speak with, and I'll let you know as soon as she does. Melekor, shall I put them in contact with you? Is there someone else who'd want to talk with T2 about the IP?

Wow, that is really impressive that you got though. Thank you! Absolutely, Myrd and I would like to talk to them jointly; we can be reached via email: melekor@projectmagma.net, myrd@projectmagma.net.

[GKokoris]

Rad! I'll give you guys a heads-up the moment I hear from the right people.

[GodzFire]

GKokoris, check your e-mail