How's this for a new mything computer?

[punkUser]

I really would still like to see screenshots though... qualitative things like "sharper" or "grainier" really need to be demonstrated so that we can see if there's actually something going wrong (that we could potentially fix). Please post some comparison shots for us for anyone who gets this. I will repeat: D3D should never look better than OpenGL unless something is going wrong.

[BIG KROK V8 SS]

i think its a case of my computer being a single core ancient pos. so nvidia is much better than ati at opengl?

[Pyro]

I have an ATI card, I got no issues. I get hundreds of FPS with OpenGL. As long as your comp isn't ancient, it shouldn't really matter which of the two types you get. My comp is a single core, and OpenGL still looks better than Direct3D for me. It could be the graphics of your old comp and possible drivers. Drivers are programs that work with your graphics card stuff. Usually they come in a CD with graphics cards, but their sites have updated versions of the drivers which would be better to get if there is a newer one.

[punkUser]

The number of cores or age of your computer is irrelevant. OpenGL and Direct3D both have specifications which dictate (to some tolerance) what an output image looks like if given a certain input. In the case of Myth, the input is the same or "better quality" on the OpenGL path than Direct3D in every case and thus the output should not be better in Direct3D unless there is a problem happening either in Myth or in the video driver, etc. This sorts of problems can potentially be address, but we need to see what you're talking about.

To summarize, you really should be using OpenGL and people should phase away from Direct3D. If there's any sort of quality problem in OpenGL *regardless of your computer specs*, we want to know and fix it. Thus could you please post some comparison screenshots of the same scene in OpenGL and Direct3D on your computer so that we can see what the problem is?

In terms of OpenGL, yes typically NVIDIAs drivers will be *faster* than ATI or Intel in OpenGL. They will all produce images of comparable quality though. Performance is a separate question that is affected by a ton of things.

[ThreeTigerSilverWind]

I really would still like to see screenshots though... qualitative things like "sharper" or "grainier" really need to be demonstrated so that we can see if there's actually something going wrong (that we could potentially fix). Please post some comparison shots for us for anyone who gets this. I will repeat: D3D should never look better than OpenGL unless something is going wrong.

I don't have Myth loaded on my computer right now, but in about a week or so I should be able to play again. Once I get Myth back on my laptop, I'll load some screen shots.

Haven't done this in awhile--do I "Prnt Scrn" and paste? Or is there a better method?

[punkUser]

Haven't done this in awhile--do I "Prnt Scrn" and paste? Or is there a better method?

Yeah that should work. Alt-prnt scrn will actually only copy the contents of your current window and is sometimes more "full-screen" friendly. Alternatively there are tools you can get that take screenshots of games as well like Fraps or Xfire or a number of others. Good old prnt scrn should work though.

Thanks for taking the time to do this! We'd like to improve on any areas where the new OpenGL/DirectX 10/11 paths are lacking, even on older hardware.

[ThreeTigerSilverWind]

I just re-installed Myth 2 and took some screenshots using Fraps. I will upload 8 pics--4 for Direct3D and 4 for OpenGL.

Comments:
(1) I may have been wrong about the grainy part--the textures appeared grainier on OpenGL when I last tried using it (version 1.7.0). But when I compare the textures now, there does not seem to be any notable difference in graininess.

(2) Generally, I get higher fps on Direct3D than OpenGL, especially during battle scenes. Vsync was turned off when on OpenGL.

(3) Generally, the game looks better to my eyes on Direct3D than OpenGL. The textures and units were brighter and clearer on Direct3D. I set the gamma to maximum for both settings. Even on max gamma, OpenGL still appeared dark on my laptop screen.

If you would like me to take additional screenshots of different maps and on different settings, e.g. lowered gamma, etc, let me know.

[ThreeTigerSilverWind]

Here is the second set from Willow Creek.

[ThreeTigerSilverWind]

First set from Gate of Storms.

The snow is quite bright with max gamma on D3D.

[ThreeTigerSilverWind]

Second set from Gate of Storms.

*Actually, one of the files exceeded 256 kb and I could not upload.*

So I will not upload the fourth set.

[ThreeTigerSilverWind]

I did some additional testing on OpenGL and came across something interesting. The screenshots I took with Fraps all indicated a lower fps on OpenGL than on D3D. But I just went through all 25 singleplayer maps on OpenGL and hit "Delete" to get the ingame fps--the fps was generally over 60, even hitting 70-80 fps regularly. My fps on D3D never goes above 60.x

Having Fraps opened while playing Myth could have been lowering my fps on OpenGL, but the same did not occur on D3D.

[GodzFire]

TheeTiger, I am curious for a few pieces of information from you:

1- What is the model of your Dell laptop
2- How old (years) would you say it is
3- What Operating System are you running?
4- What version of M2 are you using? I saw you said 1.7.0 previously, which is not the current stable build (1.7.1 is). We also have the 1.7.2 Public Beta for testing, which I highly suggest you check out if you haven't already.

PS: For OpenGL, make sure you have the following set:
- Anisotropic Filtering, Landscape Textures, and VSync ON
- Texture Cache (in MBs) set to ONE HALF of your TOTAL video ram size, (ie, if u have a 512 Vid Card, you set it to 256 in M2)

[Pyro]

What version of M2 are you using? I saw you said 1.7.0 previously, which is not the current stable build (1.7.1 is). We also have the 1.7.2 Public Beta for testing, which I highly suggest you check out if you haven't already.

He said "1.7.0 previously" as in the last time he tried was on that version and therefore he is on a different version now.

PS: For OpenGL, make sure you have the following set:
- Anisotropic Filtering, Landscape Textures, and VSync ON
- Texture Cache (in MBs) set to ONE HALF of your TOTAL video ram size, (ie, if u have a 512 Vid Card, you set it to 256 in M2)

Ignore that.

Landscape Textures and Anisotropic Filtering are only used to enable the detail textures assuming you have a plugin or addon that has them. While this could add detail to your maps, it could lower your fps if your system is old or out of date. It would be worth checking out but does not mean you need them.

VSync on would likely best be used if your system is creating frames that are not complete giving a sort of screen tearing effect as you move the camera. If your system is fast enough to have enough FPS, then using this would remove your screen tearing effect without making it look choppy. Good option to use if your system can handle it.

The default value for the Texture Cache is 20 MB. If you load up the 1.7.2 public beta, it will automatically calculate the texture cache value for your system. If this however causes issues like choppiness, try other values and report it to Magma. If the default value calculated is incorrect, the devs will want to figure out why and correct it before the final 1.7.2 build.

[punkUser]

Landscape Textures and Anisotropic Filtering are only used to enable the detail textures assuming you have a plugin or addon that has them. While this could add detail to your maps, it could lower your fps if your system is old or out of date. It would be worth checking out but does not mean you need them.

Right, but I would highly suggest checking them out once you get the 1.7.2 public beta. On most systems they now incur very little if any overhead. If you're already getting >60fps on 1.7.[0|1] then I would imagine you'll be easily getting that *with* detail textures on 1.7.2. There were a ton of improvements made to rendering speed in 1.7.2.

Good option to use if your system can handle it.

Yeah I recommend always turning vsync on if your computer is getting >60fps. Don't turn it on while benchmarking though as it will limit your fps to 60.

The fps shouldn't be noticeably affected with Fraps up but the FPS on the screenshots might be wrong because of the overhead of taking the screenshot.

Also note that there are a few things in those D3D shots that are worse than OGL. For instance, all of the units have a black outline... that's not good and has to do with how we can't blend as well near the edges of units in D3D. OpenGL blends smoothly as you can see.

To my eyes the gamma looks better in OpenGL as well... it's washed out in the D3D image. Note that gamma != brightness! If your image is too dark, you don't turn up the gamma... turn up the brightness on your monitor. Gamma is for adjusting the relatively relationship of dark and light areas and really for calibrating a monitor to display a proper gradient of lightness. Laptop monitors are notoriously bad so your ability to do this may be limited but do your best to adjust everything on the actual monitor first... ideally you shouldn't have to adjust the ingame gamma in this day and age. (Note that windows power saving settings may adjust the brightness of your panel when on battery since the backlight is quite a power hog. You can change this behavior in power options in the control panel though.)

More importantly, once you get detail textures (go get the Magma ones for the Bungie levels at the very least from the Tain) OpenGL will look *much* better due to improved detail in the landscape. I think you'll like the result.

[vinylrake]

my reaction was similar to the screenshots. to me the D3D just looked washed out / more cartoony. less detail.