Project Magma on iPad

[vinylrake]

dac, you are welcome to bring me up to speed on the insights you have into what it would take to create a myth clone.

i am all ears.

ps. at least write an app so i know you know how to program. talk is cheap on the internet.

[dac]

so is use of the word "misattribute" or any of its forms.

written plenty, thanks. if you're blessed to not work with clients and get to have 100% complete requirements and dont understand thats half the battle, good for you.

[vinylrake]

written plenty, thanks.

"written plenty" but that's not what i said. write an _application_ so there's evidence you have some basic ability to do something other than edit other people's code(e.g. script kiddy). lots of programmers 'write plenty' but couldn't create a game engine from scratch or even a moderately complex application.

look, you have nowhere near the knowledge or experience/skills in programming/analysis/app-system-design that i do and your attempts to dismiss my comments in one of the few fields i actually have some expertise in are laughable because of that disparity. it's merely a function of experience and age, which i have over you in spades, so it's not me idly bragging, it's just a fact.

[GodzFire]

nobody's going to program the ipad for free, nobody's got a clean interface for a touchscreen implementation (good luck on that one) and myth has no market.

props to magma for building your resume by improving a dead game, you should take the wealth of experience and get paid for your troubles by doing something worthwhile. of course, going from being the boss to a rank and file programmer is a hell of an adjustment (again experience talking), but as somebody who has done interviews and managed teams, i would still advise against going into an interview saying you did OOP in C.

With all due respect Dac, you are way out of line.

I can't speak for the devs, but as it stands they already are coding for free. If they could continue doing that with the goal of it being sold on the iPad I have no doubt they would. I CAN say that Myth would have a market if it was actually available again to the general public. I've spoken to a number of different groups who have either wanted to help distribute Myth or update it for portable devices. However, each and every time it hasn't materialized due to one, single factor: Take2.

You could make the point the devs are just doing this for something to put on their resume, but if you ask anyone around here you'd know that's not true. They do it because they love the game. The number of hours they spend each week on Myth proves it. You might not be aware, but the devs are already getting paid for the type of stuff they do for Myth.

By your thinking, there's no reason for them to 'deal with' Myth anymore, but they do. Why? Because they love the game. By your comments about Myth and it being a dead game, it seems however, like you don't.

[cimota]

As the re-invigorator of this thread, I'd like to take the opportunity to make sure the devs who have fought for, maintained, coded, re-coded, built maps, plug-ins, fixed bugs and all the other things they do - are soundly congratulated. If I could give you money for Myth, I would. In fact, there's at least $50 in my Paypal which could buy you all a beer. A token gesture to be sure but happy to send it.

But while I would love to see Myth on iPad, the IP situation is not tenable. At the same time I don't want to see the work being done here to be wasted or unrewarded. So I'd be interested in seeing what sort of resources would be possible to gather to do this. And my reasons being that I know a game development venture fund locally. And we have some programmes to get college students in game development jobs funded to 60% through government incentives. So knowing how much effort it would take would be crucial.

And as I said, the previous work should not be discarded - not at all - but if it helped create a newer IP-unencumbered framework for this sort of development and, god forbid, if it made any money, it could conceivably create something quite special.

It's easy for some to nay-say but while I'm not a developer nor an artist, I am employed in creating little collaboration clusters for project development. If there were people interested in doing something around this then I'd be interested in talking to them.

[dac]

written plenty, thanks.

"written plenty" but that's not what i said. write an _application_ so there's evidence you have some basic ability to do something other than edit other people's code(e.g. script kiddy). lots of programmers 'write plenty' but couldn't create a game engine from scratch or even a moderately complex application.

look, you have nowhere near the knowledge or experience/skills in programming/analysis/app-system-design that i do and your attempts to dismiss my comments in one of the few fields i actually have some expertise in are laughable because of that disparity. it's merely a function of experience and age, which i have over you in spades, so it's not me idly bragging, it's just a fact.

hahahahahahahahahahahaha

i love it when people ignorant of a situation call other people ignorant of a situation.

i'll give you this, you're definitely older and probably have more experience writing the things than i do, but that doesnt mean that myth had a solid working goal when it was started 2 years early, or that things didnt change in the meantime, or that the devs would magically develop a PM or a client who wanted things to change 30% of the way through.

my guess is if you were half as good and experienced as you claim to be, you wouldnt need to look at things like joomla to find a cms that fits your fancy. especially since its such an insult to be editing other peoples code! and an allegation born of ignorance. but thanks for the lols.

[dac]

yay double post, unless somebody responds first on these sloooow forums.

nobody's going to program the ipad for free, nobody's got a clean interface for a touchscreen implementation (good luck on that one) and myth has no market.

props to magma for building your resume by improving a dead game, you should take the wealth of experience and get paid for your troubles by doing something worthwhile. of course, going from being the boss to a rank and file programmer is a hell of an adjustment (again experience talking), but as somebody who has done interviews and managed teams, i would still advise against going into an interview saying you did OOP in C.

With all due respect Dac, you are way out of line.

I can't speak for the devs, but as it stands they already are coding for free. If they could continue doing that with the goal of it being sold on the iPad I have no doubt they would. I CAN say that Myth would have a market if it was actually available again to the general public. I've spoken to a number of different groups who have either wanted to help distribute Myth or update it for portable devices. However, each and every time it hasn't materialized due to one, single factor: Take2.

You could make the point the devs are just doing this for something to put on their resume, but if you ask anyone around here you'd know that's not true. They do it because they love the game. The number of hours they spend each week on Myth proves it. You might not be aware, but the devs are already getting paid for the type of stuff they do for Myth.

By your thinking, there's no reason for them to 'deal with' Myth anymore, but they do. Why? Because they love the game. By your comments about Myth and it being a dead game, it seems however, like you don't.

first time ive seen you say you cant speak for somebody godz, especially as a "not an official member of magma". the devs are building their resume and of course they work on it because they love myth, but lets not kid ourselves. their work for the community of 40 people who are being whacked 1 by 1 by mnet's lovely administration is not exactly what will be gratifying, nor do most of the devs play myth very often. if they werent using it as a resume builder i would think they were idiots for it.

finding somebody willing to distribute it with no investment or potential for loss doesnt make a market. i dont know the details of all of this but the fact is that myth has been available for download illegally for some time and this hasnt turned into an influx of new players. if you think the occasional bored guy on steam is going to say "oh that game i remember hearing about it 10 years ago" and download it, i think you're mistaken. its a nice thought though.

and yes, credit to the devs for making myth better. i hope you use it to further your careers and get financially rewarded for it.

[Myrd]

first time ive seen you say you cant speak for somebody godz, especially as a "not an official member of magma". the devs are building their resume and of course they work on it because they love myth, but lets not kid ourselves. their work for the community of 40 people who are being whacked 1 by 1 by mnet's lovely administration is not exactly what will be gratifying, nor do most of the devs play myth very often. if they werent using it as a resume builder i would think they were idiots for it.

finding somebody willing to distribute it with no investment or potential for loss doesnt make a market. i dont know the details of all of this but the fact is that myth has been available for download illegally for some time and this hasnt turned into an influx of new players. if you think the occasional bored guy on steam is going to say "oh that game i remember hearing about it 10 years ago" and download it, i think you're mistaken. its a nice thought though.

and yes, credit to the devs for making myth better. i hope you use it to further your careers and get financially rewarded for it.

Just because you can't understand why someone would want to work for free on something they love doesn't give you the right to insult people who do by calling them idiots etc. I have a kickass job already and certainly don't (and didn't) need Myth on my resume to advance my career. Now, please stop trolling on our forums. Thanks.

[dac]

so its not on your resume at all? really?

[punkUser]

nor do most of the devs play myth very often.

Huh? Where are you getting this from? A pile of us have been playing through TSG for the last few months and before that we had a few big MP nights. We regularly play/test random mods as well. So while we're not on there every day (we do have lives and there are other games too ), I'd hardly say we barely play, particularly relative to the majority of players.

if they werent using it as a resume builder i would think they were idiots for it.

Guess I'm an idiot - it's not even on my resume. Of course I'm not sure how having a hobby project of working on a game that you love is considered idiocy so you'll have to explain that one to me

As Myrd says though... we all are in good jobs/places in life and we all do it out of love for Myth. There are far better ways to get jobs if we needed any help (hint: we don't ) than to work on an old game in legal limbo that most people haven't heard of. We do it cause we love Myth... and you're welcome.

[dac]

the only reason not to have it on your resume is if you havent had to look for work since you started working on it.

and as i said before, credit for working on it. let me rephrase: thank you for your hard work. i hope you get rewarded for it.

[punkUser]

the only reason not to have it on your resume is if you havent had to look for work since you started working on it.

Perhaps, but also because it just isn't that relevant compared to other experience and education. Resumes have to be kept short and concise after all.

But anyways the point is I don't think many of us would have trouble getting work wherever we want in the industry, with or without any work on Myth. We seriously do it solely out of a love for the game... there is no ulterior motive and we want nor expect no reward beyond the game getting better and people enjoying it.

[dac]

if thats a 100% true blanket statement, then why is everybody so focused on getting rights from take2 and not working for free?

my only point is that you should be leveraging what you do to get paid. there's NOTHING wrong with that

[vinylrake]

i love it when people ignorant of a situation call other people ignorant of a situation.

oh yeah, well i love it when people ignorant of a situation call other people ignorant of a situation who call other people ignorant of a situation....

You can guess all you want about my experience and skills, but if you had any experience to go along with your 'programming skills' (which you have yet to demonstrate in any form at all), you would realize that unless one has huge amounts of time available that there is little point in redesigning and recreating something that someone else has already created when that something will already do what you want. (in this case a content management system) yes, i do have the chops to create one, in fact it's most of what has been powering mything.org for the past 6-7 years - there's an off the shelf wiki and a 'news' blog, and an image gallery - all merged into mything.org - but the vast majority of the site is handcoded, manual db creation/scripts/etc. So why now looking for an off the shelf cms instead of just coding it over? Because there's a lot of features i'd like to add, and mything.org wasn't designed from the ground up as fully imagined site, it grew in pieces so i would like it to have a consistent underlying architecture - which cms's provide - along with lots of plugins and features. I don't see how it's very intelligent for me to spend weeks or months writing something that already exists.(why recreate the wheel? is your wheel going to be any rounder?). It's like a machinist. A good machinist could create his own engine from scratch, but how long is it going to take - at what cost - is a SMART machinist going to spend the time and effort to build his own engine from scratch to power a vehicle so he can go shopping once a week if a cheaper (free in this case) vehicle is available for him to use? No. Mything.org is a hobby site, i don't make money from it so it's not something i want to spend inordinate amounts of time building the master-vinylrake-customized CMS for IF i can find a free tool that will do the job. but feel free to get back to me about how stupid i am when YOU have created a website from scratch with a few dozen different database tables holding thousands of records and integrated off-the-shelf products. When you've done, heck when you've done even HALF of that, THEN i'll be happy to listen to your 'experience', until then you are just blowing troll smoke.

and if you had even the tiniest bit of accurate self-awareness of how your alleged 'programming skills' fit into the programming cosmos you wouldn't be so arrogant to think that you are so great that editing other people's code is an insult - as if editing someone else's code is beneath you - that only your own code is worth editing - as if you couldn't learn something from editing someone else's code because you already know all there is to know about programming. that my little arrogant pal, is a very funny thought. hubris, thy name is dac.

right back at ya, thanks for lols - haven't laughed this hard in several days.

ps. i fully expect your ADD to kick in and have you reply something like 'that's too many words i am not going to read that' rather than actually address the truth of what i am telling you.

[punkUser]

if thats a 100% true blanket statement, then why is everybody so focused on getting rights from take2 and not working for free?

Who is focused on that? The gain from "getting rights" is purely so that new people can get myth, etc. It would be nice to be able to port it to other platforms/release it so more people can play, but there's zero point in doing any of that work given the current legal situation.

There's also a big difference between working for free to give something away and working for free to line [insert big publisher here]'s pockets.

my only point is that you should be leveraging what you do to get paid. there's NOTHING wrong with that

Meh, that's what I do at my job. I do Myth for fun