The 9 & TFL - Bringing all our information together

[Pyro]

Well, The Nine didnt know that Balor was the reincarnated form of Connacht. Atleast, not until well after most of The Nine were dead. The Great War lasted hundreds of years if i remember right. Therefore, the Nine probably assumed that he was enemy from the early years of the war. just my 2 cents.

The Great War only lasted for 17 years. Muirthemne was sacked about 110 years before Alric becoming Emperor. The Great War was the war with the West against the Dark so it doesn't include the East (of the Cloudspine).

[Raistlin MM]

they were still fighting in the war right? i mean the fallen were trying to destroy the whole of humanity not just the cath bruig empire therefore it is still part of the great war.

[GodzFire]

I'd just like to bump this and hopefully generate some more discussion on it since it's been 5 years now from the original post and curious to know if anyone has any new insights or theories?

[A-Red]

Still completely unanswerable based on the content that actually appears in the games, and for my part I reject any pre-publication material that didn't make it in (for instance, just looking at the original post I can see that Soulblighter is included as an ancient evil rather than someone turned from the light, in direct contradiction to the way the game depicts him). If you've ever written a novel, a short story, a game, a song, or any other work of art, you know that the stuff that you considered and scrapped along the way is *not* a part of that fiction's internal reality.

I know who the remaining four Avatara and two Fallen Lords are, but that's because me and my mapmaking buddies made them up. That's probably the best anyone can do.

[GodzFire]

Another update. I've been reading over GURPS Myth in extreme detail, and there are a few pieces of information which seems to corroborate and confirm some speculation we had about the Fallen Lords.

First, here once again is the pre-release list which members of Bungie who helped create the Myth series admit were partially incorrect:

--- Ancient Evils ---
* Soulblighter
* The Voiceless One
* Bahl'al
--- Turned from the Light ---
* The Deceiver
* Bonesplitter
* The Faceless Man

Here is a snippet of The Fallen Lords section from GURPS:

Of the seven original Fallen Lords, one now thrives, having returned to service with the Light. Four have died at least once apiece, and for now all evidence suggests they remain dead. Two disappeared after Balor's defeat.

Now here are the details on The Lurker and The Voiceless One from GURPS:

The Lurker
Little is known of this Fallen Lord, or her fate. She specialized in weather and plant-control spells, and would "soften up" a target with seemingly natural catastrophes before announcing her presence and intent. The Lurker was also known as Bheil. the twice-born daughter of flood and famine.

The Voiceless One
Perhaps the most mysterious of the Fallen Lords, the Voiceless One slipped through the night on missions that even Balor could not be sure he fully understood. Her name was Ravanna. and she was called the loveless child of the unwed dawn.

An alert Heron reported back to Alric that the Deceiver called Shiver "Ravanna" in his final confrontation with her. and that immediately afterward she quit taunting him and began unloading her mightiest magics at the Deceiver instead. Alric suspects this would indicate some sort of strange relationship between Shiver and the Voiceless One, but the Deceiver has remained true to form and enlightened no one.

It is known that Balor revived the Voiceless One from eternal sleep. It could be that Shiver and she are the same. Shiver was on her second and third lives in Balor's and SoulBlighter's wars respectively, and the last Fallen Lord has yet to be revealed!

Now take a look at Shiver's bio:

The mother of plagues and first lady of Fallen Lords, Shiver had practiced arch-magery for untold time before joining Balor's forces. The Ghols whisper of her long-ago exploits using the name Culwyeh, and even they are taken aback by the tales they tell. Among other exploits, she is credited with first fielding Wights.

Not even an archmage could stand up to her till Rabican learned of her one weakness - vanity. Selling a trap for her at huge risk, he allowed her to engage him with her Whisper Dream, then used his new knowledge to stun her long enough to use a massive Flame Jet to finish her.

Even as the smoke curled away from her ashes, Rabican could still feel her presence, and indeed death apparently didn’t endure. Soulblighter either revived her or created an undead incarnation with Trabists’ Mirror, but where once Shiver boasted a gauzy appearance at turns beautiful and bestial, she now appeared all too solid, withered, and injured. What vanity remained would find little solace in her new form. Instead, her new appearance drove Shiver to a constant state of shrieking rage.

Shiver assisted Soulblighter as she had Balor until the Deceiver gave her a second - perhaps even final death. During this period she did not appear to wield the same great sorceries that she had previously possessed - but was still a ferocious opponent, taken lightly by no one.

Combining this with what we know from the games, an accurate picture can be painted of the Fallen Lords and their names:

Turned from the Light (Previous Heroes)
- Balor (Connacht - 'died' once); Ashfear
- Soulblighter (Damas - 'died' once); Twice Born; Anshar, Patron of the Hanged; The Faceless Man
- The Deceiver (Myrdred - 'died' once); Source of the Five Hundred Poisons
- Shiver/The Voiceless One (Culwyeh / Ravanna - 'died' twice); Mother of Plagues; First Lady of the Fallen; Loveless Child of the Unwed Dawn [1st reincarnation as shown in M1, 2nd reincarnation as shown in M2]
Ancient Evils (Always Baddies)
- The Watcher (Bahl'al); Mad Goat of the Fens
- The Lurker (Bheil); Twice-Born Daughter of Flood and Famine [NOTE: This is a stretch, but based on her title, I consider her the daughter of Soulblighter/Shiver]
- Bonesplitter

Thoughts?

[GodzFire]

ALSO, another name of The 9 has bee confirmed! Taken from page 84 of GURPS:

Gleaming Wands - The archmage Malagigi created these glowing sticks to end the long-ago Siege of the Seven Gates. The Gleaming Wands force the Mahir to become corporeal, temporarily losing their Shadow Form advantage. This is an area effect with a base cost of 3 and duration of 1 minute. Each Mahir in the area of effect receives a HT roll to resist the spell. The component spell to enchant Gleaming Wands has been lost in history.

This corroborates text descriptions from the Myth TFL betas that were found and why there is this sprite sequence of the Mahir; it was supposed to be for the Gleaming Wand effect.

[Vindicator]

"Twice born" Is a Title you can get if you DIE and come back again. It has nothing to do with Soulblighter's family name or something like that.

Majarin from myth 3 can not be the leveler! Many times in Bungie lore things like this are said about the leveler:
"The leveler is a transient divinity thats seeks not to counqure but only to destory." Majarin wanted to rule over the cath bruig empire= Bungie says he cant' be the leveler = NUFF SAID!
EPIC MUMBO JUMBO FAIL!

[GodzFire]

"Twice born" Is a Title you can get if you DIE and come back again. It has nothing to do with Soulblighter's family name or something like that.

Yes....I know that......nor did I ever SAY that it was a family name if you read my post carefully; I said it was a title. The suggestion she is the daughter of Damas and Ravanna comes from the fact that based on her title, she could have had the same ritual performed on her that Damas did to himself.

[oogaBooga]

Roland/Beowulf are not references to avatara. Some of the other info is interesting but the roland/beowulf thing is a tip of the hat to the marathon story. Bungie's games like to center around paralell universes and timelines and the concept of an ageless hero being reincarnated. When they say roland or beowulf or achilles they mean the literal heroes of legend. So sayeth the Pfhorums and story message boards at least, which have been studying the intricacies of bungie story since before Myth.

[GodzFire]

Majarin from myth 3 can not be the leveler! Many times in Bungie lore things like this are said about the leveler:
"The leveler is a transient divinity thats seeks not to counqure but only to destory." Majarin wanted to rule over the cath bruig empire= Bungie says he cant' be the leveler = NUFF SAID!
EPIC MUMBO JUMBO FAIL!

Actually you're incorrect. The failure narration of the final level of M3: "Connacht and Damas were never seen again. Emperor Mjarin said that they died while killing Moagim, giving their lives for the glory of the empire. They would be remembered as great heroes. Soon, Emperor Mjarin lead his newly formed armies North to conquer the former Trow's homeland and the decimated lands of the Twelve Duns. Even the Dwarven Kingdoms fell to the might of his armies. Only the nation of Gower resisted the might of the Emperor, but in time, they too fell."

He played his part as a leader until he got an army big enough to attack and destroy all the remaining powers and anyone who went against him. That's exactly along the lines of how the Leveler is portrayed.

[Vindicator]

Godz, you are forgetting that his plan was/is to rule the cath bruig empire = NOT The Leveler.
Any lore mumbo jumbo came up with should never ever, in any way be included as any type of myth canon. The guy who wrote it Bearly even tried to do any research or understand when he was messing things up all over.