playability and pace in a plugin.

[juliocpaes]

all lads,

I'm making a plugin, and developing a "map action"
writing some scripts / codes.
I would like to make quick questions, During a game, players do not like? :

1) following a unit leader as in "03 town gates - M2"

2) attack a convoy as in "302 traitor - M1"

During a game, the player like? :

1) waves and waves of enemies attacking from all sides?

2) playability, pace ... Define the pace that is for you.

3) Define : what is a good level single player.

Julio

[DarthRevan555]

Following a leader like a villager sucks big time imo, it does add to difficulty but it reduces gameplay because it'll be branded "that map with retarded AI"

I like attacking Convoys because I don't see them very often in coops and knowing that theres more ways of losing adds tension and a course of strategy to be in place to win. (Although if you make it like traitors grave, then it will be suxor)

Wave by Wave is getting tiring to me (because almost all my maps are based on it) So I'd give it a pass unless it's not the entire map [like as if theres a brief moment you fight off a force then go back to main obj]

Pace? Tough one, I think a great coop map should be around 20-25 minutes, it gives enough time for events to unfold smoothly and not drag on like those hour long Gladiators, Mazz or the dreaded VoD levels.

Also for replay value I'd suggest using random MA so that each game can be different (tricky but do-able) Like enemy spawns and events etc. Just don't go overboard and make it seem like a whole new mesh each time i.e changing map obj or win condition [although come to think of it, that might be cool to see if done right, whatever that means.]

A good solo level?
Some of my personal favorites are
TSG - 02 Barbarians at The Gate (don't say its 03 because the intro level doesn't count) [I'm talking to you Pyro! >:
Bushido - Level 1 (Forgot the name haha)
Swamp of The Damed
Imprisoned
IX Thorncastle (the level with the fortress defense)
Phantom Hounds - Plague of The Toven
Any TSOT campaign level.

Hope that helped.

Revan IX

I'm Revan and I Approve this message.
Paid for by The Myth III Kickstarter Foundation.

[juliocpaes]

Revan IX

thanks for the comments,
In future, if you have more opinion, please post again.



Julio

[juliocpaes]

other day, a myh friend commented the matter with me, saying:

"... I would mention is be careful not to make what players do too limited. In other words, make sure you don't force them to only do one thing or only go to one specific place - and don't have too many scripted parts that take control of player's units to tell a story. Short scripted scenes can help make the story go smoother, but players get annoyed when they have to watch long scripts where they can't do anything ... "

I want to continuing to know of the lads : what you hate in a level.

For example, I loved the pace game "Across Gjøl" : is a level hallucinating, heroic.

Also, I liked the level "crow bridge " because the pace is smooth, and takes the player to enjoy the scenery, I think this is important: a good scenario. The player have a experience as go for "inside" of game.

Julio

[Jestrel]

Finally, a discussion on gameplay in Myth. Escort missions are an interesting issue with Myth. Generally I think that having to stick around an NPC for a large chink of a map doesn't work very well for the kind of game Myth is. "Down a Broken Path" worked pretty well though as you weren't being bombarded with undead at every turn. Instead the dark only showed up at what I felt like were key strategic points, and areas that would make for interesting encounters. This usually happened hills and when the player had to cross rivers and other areas that broke up the monotony of escorting some idiot around.

The important thing to remember is that "Down a Broken path" is less about escorting Ruric and being bombarded and more about moving constantly and taking a stand at distinct points throughout the map, in contrast to maps like "Gonan's Bridge", where the player is constantly on the move, which end up being a bit more stressful and tense. In any case I would still say that escort missions don't really mesh well with Myth's other gameplay.

Convoy maps are a bit of a different story as they can be crippled if the player doesn't know EXACTLY where to go immediately, as this can make the map almost impossible. The types of units the player is given in this sort of map needs to be thoroughly considered in this variety of map, particularly with respect to their speed. Accuracy is a big issue to. I can't tell you the number of times I lost "Traitor's Grave" just because my fucking archers couldn't hit the side of a barn.

As for waves of enemies, I believe that "Across the Gjol", "Shadow of the Mountain" and "Stair of Grief" were some of the best levels in the series, just because their objectives weren't too complex, but the gameplay is such that you still have to think very hard about what you're doing.

In general the pace of a map should really just follow a standard difficulty curve (http://calitreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/1.png). For an example of what I mean, just play "Into the Breach" and take note of where the game gets really hard versus, when you're just bashing Ghols.

Ultimately what makes a good SP level is one that relies on a single aspect of Myth's gameplay and takes advantage of the intricacies and interplay in Myth's design.

[juliocpaes]

Jestrel,

thanks for the wise comment , very deep (in show me standard difficulty curve ) was what I needed to know.
i guess some of the lads here, never listen about this. I'll go want more of his "myth knowledge" .

Julio

[Jestrel]

No problem man, I live for dissecting games like this and I've been playing around with concepts for a solo plugin myself.

[Edit]
This is probably pretty obvious to most but ambiance is really important in a game like this; that's why there's not background music during levels I believe and why there are something like 300+ environmental sounds. Bungie realized that they could really easily make a level feel a certain way not just by making the colormap interesting and the terrain varied, but by giving it a distinct sound. To get a sense of what I mean, play "Beyond the Cloudspine" with volume turned up high. Pay attention to how the windy sounds and songbirds work in concert with the orange and tan color scheme to make the mission feel like the chilly badlands and foothills it's supposed to. This is just something I find really cool about Myth and it gets overlooked too often for my taste.

[juliocpaes]

Hmm,i guess is need to change a bit the "map action " of my plugin in progress.
I was the 1/4 of the work done. Now, back to 1/8.
I understand that players do not like follow a unit leader or guide, because it limits the playability of them.

this's it

Julio

[juliocpaes]

No problem man, I live for dissecting games like this and I've been playing around with concepts for a solo plugin myself.

[Edit]
This is probably pretty obvious to most but ambiance is really important in a game like this; that's why there's not background music during levels I believe and why there are something like 300+ environmental sounds. Bungie realized that they could really easily make a level feel a certain way not just by making the colormap interesting and the terrain varied, but by giving it a distinct sound. To get a sense of what I mean, play "Beyond the Cloudspine" with volume turned up high. Pay attention to how the windy sounds and songbirds work in concert with the orange and tan color scheme to make the mission feel like the chilly badlands and foothills it's supposed to. This is just something I find really cool about Myth and it gets overlooked too often for my taste.

<<how the windy sounds and songbirds work in concert with the orange >>

Yep, I checked this's it.

Julio

[A-Red]

In general the pace of a map should really just follow a standard difficulty curve (http://calitreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/1.png). For an example of what I mean, just play "Into the Breach" and take note of where the game gets really hard versus, when you're just bashing Ghols.

Often true (the point about "Into the Breach" is well made), but not always. See "Siege of Madrigal" for a completely different idea about how to handle difficulty--the level is designed around pummeling you at almost the very beginning and then forcing you to survive with threadbare remnants against smaller, strewn-out enemy forces made up of Wights and Ghols.

Pace can be handled many different ways. The important thing is to know what you want to accomplish and then make that idea central to the design. "The Great Devoid" is one of my favorite levels in the series, and it's also one of the calmest. The sense of quiet after the hard and fast climax battles of the previous few levels is eerie and disturbing, and gives a great lead-up to the final confrontation. "Shadow of the Mountain" has bursts of high action with long calm-before-the-storm pauses in between. And of course, you can hardly ever go wrong with nonstop action like in "Gonen's Bridge."

[Jestrel]

"The Great Devoid" is one of my favorite levels in the series, and it's also one of the calmest. The sense of quiet after the hard and fast climax battles of the previous few levels is eerie and disturbing, and gives a great lead-up to the final confrontation.

Ultimately that's one of the most interesting things about Myth's level design, and this is purely speculation on my part; but it seems that the goals and overall pacing of most levels follows the story. The noticeable result is that the mood of the story is conveyed through the feel of a level. This makes up somewhat for the fact that Myth's story and the actual game are completely separate.

That's a really good point though, A-Red, the pace of level is entirely dependent on the type of level that it is and in the case of Myth's solo campaign, on the context of the story.