Will pc users ever have access...

[Garrick-n-]

to a program that allows the creation or editing of units?

[iron]

its highly unlikely I'm afraid. And at the moment Mac users are stuck with a program that doesn't run natively in OSX (Amber). If the source became available we'd see what we could do about updating it and making a PC equivalent.

[Industry]

Could some helpful Amber user make and send me screen shots of the Amber interface and dialog windows. I really don't want to make a PC tool that is functionally different.

[iron]

its not the interface that's hard, its understanding the collection tag format. I believe Melekor was making a PC Amber a year ago and actually was getting somewhere, but then he seemed to disappear.

[CIK]

Programmers who are interested in working on the tools please email me at cik@projectmagma.net so we can coordinate efforts.

[Unkfolt]

Oh man! This is what I've been waiting for since I began playing Myth! I bet if word of a PC version of Amber gets out, Myth might come back (somewhat). I know a few people who used to play Myth, but left mainly because of the limited options for PCers in mapmaking.

¤¤

[Industry]

I've been staring at Topaz-extracted collection tags for awhile and Fear, and I agree the collection tags format must be insane. Collections
exist for the:
Color Maps
Overhead Maps
Model Textures
Pre and Post Game
Scenery
Units/Monsters
The Interface

None of these seem the same to me, but there they are, all in the collection folder. And oh look, there are some projectiles in this scenery collection, and some here in this unit collection. ARGH!!!! So tantilizingly close to understanding
but... no.



Looking at Fear I have to assume that the unit collections must include some structure to define/link to the monster tag sequences. But that information would be completely useless to a model collection. What the heck would the Secondary Idle Sequence be for the granary textures? I was actually looking for screenshots of Amber in hopes that they might help me figure out the collection tag syntax.

(and yes I have mailed you CIK)

[Raistlin MM]

Actually iron your right Melekor was making Winamber. And i think he was almost done with it, But I havent been able to get ahold of him resently. And his webpage is gone cant find it I've still got some of the pics and tag references he sent me if you want them.

[GHOST®]

If ANYONE could make WinAmber or a similiar program a reality, it would be more than appreciated, we`d Honour you as a GOD !!

A Windows version of Amber is loooooooong overdue, and I know of many a PC Mapmaker who feels stifled or a Mac user who feels overwhelmed because us PC users dont have a way to make or manipulate collections. (Tahoe dont count, its not .001 of Amber)

Personally I would rank a Windows version of Amber up there in importance to that of MII 1.5 and world peace, but thats just me mb. :op



Edited By GHOST® on 1081473555

[Unkfolt]

What's Tahoe?

[Industry]

Tahoe is the closest thing PC users have to Amber. It displays all the bitmaps from a previously extracted collection tag, allows you to export or replace each bitmap individually, and allows you to export or replace the whole tag's color map. It has entries is a drop down list for doing the same thing to the Alpha Channel, but they are always greyed out for me.

Oh yeah and it also has an Info command that lets you look at the collection tag info, like its name, group (which has to be collection, duh), size and six "User Flags". The "User Flags" are: Textures, Scenery, Atmospheric, Monsters, Projectiles, Interface.

[Orlando the Axe]

it lets you extract collections on a pc.

[GHOST®]

Actually OtA, Topaz is the PC Tag Extractor that allows us to extract collections, Tahoe allows you to look at Collections, but its feasibility is Nil for anything but the most minor collection work, after all you have to export or import each .bmp individually, if a collection already has an Alpha assigned to it you can manipulate it, but you cant create a fresh one, nor retime sequences, add sounds to sequences, selection box sizes, key points / frames, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, . . . .

Anyways, just clarifying Topaz as the collection / tag extractor, Tahoe the Collection Viewer / very minor manipulator.



Edited By GHOST® on 1081546157

[mauglir]

I've been staring at Topaz-extracted collection tags for awhile and Fear, and I agree the collection tags format must be insane. Collections
exist for the:
Color Maps
Overhead Maps
Model Textures
Pre and Post Game
Scenery
Units/Monsters
The Interface

None of these seem the same to me, but there they are, all in the collection folder. And oh look, there are some projectiles in this scenery collection, and some here in this unit collection. ARGH!!!! So tantilizingly close to understanding
but... no.



Looking at Fear I have to assume that the unit collections must include some structure to define/link to the monster tag sequences. But that information would be completely useless to a model collection. What the heck would the Secondary Idle Sequence be for the granary textures? I was actually looking for screenshots of Amber in hopes that they might help me figure out the collection tag syntax.

(and yes I have mailed you CIK)

I'm pretty sure the common theme of all the different image types that fall into the Collection tag family is that they are color indexed files or greyscale.

A Collection tag is made up of a group of bitmaps which are organized into Sequences. Sequences are broken up into Views and Frames. You can assign any number of sequences to one collection, and each sequence can have any number of views and each view can have any number of frames (there are probably actual limits, but if so, then they're pretty big). Sequences can include bitmaps that are mirrored horizontally and/or vertically (but they don't have to). A collection can only include one color table, but that color table can contain several hue changes.

Units are the most complex kind of collection because of the sheer number of sequences, views, and frames they require for complete functionality in Myth. Even a very simple unit, like a chicken that does nothing but walk around (and die), has at least four sequences with four to eight views per sequences and probably at least six frames per view. Add in a couple of attack sequences, a taunt, perhaps a blocking sequence, hold for attack, etc., etc. and you've got a LOT of bitmaps.

Model collections are acutally remarkably similar to unit collections. They too make use of multiple sequences, but in this case each sequence is linked with one material on the Geometry tag. You can add multiple views to a sequence, and (with the help of other tools) these can be made into permutations for the Model tag. That's how the buildings on Willow Creek can be tinted to match the mesh shadows no matter which way the models are facing. Again, each model collection must contain bitmaps that all share the same color table.

Overhead maps and multi-player pregames is simply collection tags that consist of a single bitmap that occupies one sequence with one view, and one frame. Colormaps are probably the same.

I used to know the details of a solo pregame collection, but I'd need to do some refresher studying before I could actually make one.

One other to keep in mind is that an idle sequence is only an idle sequence because you set it that way in the Monster tag using Fear. As far as the colleciton tag is concerned, all sequences are the same.

Is that as clear as mud? There's more, but I'll stop for now

[GHOST®]

[color=DFC99B]:: reads Mauglirs post as "Ill have a working version of WinAmber up and ready for all you PC users by next week" ::

WHOOOOT !!

jOO rOx Maug !! :op

BTW good to see youre back. :oD[/color]