Universal Myth plugin pack - can it be done?

[clem]

Do not include the following works in any archive or project for download.

A Separation of Ages
Barbarian Valley
Barbarian Valley Tourney
CoD - The Ire
CoD - Source of 500 Poisons
Gambler's Heart
Legend of Gor Ash (anything to do with this)
Morte Della Luna
Peace on the Ramparts
River of Life
River of Gold
Shattered Earth
The Seventh God (Or any update or variation on this work.)
WW2 - No Surrender
WW2 - LAH2W Lead a Hoor To Water
WW2 - To A Violent End
Hvergelmir
Homeland
Homeland II
CoD LevelPack 1
Blacken My Eye

These are the projects that I was either a major contributing factor in each or am left in control of the future wellfare of the project - or - I have been left control of distribution in writing by individuals who used to control them.

A mapmaker should not have to chase people down and demand things. The people should ask for permission to do things with other peoples work. That essence of the community is gone. Ethics. No one can say that they do not have any idea where they could find me 'if' they wished to. It's easy for people who have created little to sit back and say what they would do if people wished to do things with their work. Those people usually do not have anywhere near the the amount of work being included without consent, if any at all. Look at the list. Have respect for the wishes of author's of old work even if you do not agree, or understand the intricacies of arrangements that could exist, or reasonings behind them. Either way it is the wishes of the individuals who created the work. If an old project does NOT have any ReadMe in it, the odds are very very high that the readme has been stripped from the project. Any project posted to The Mill required a ReadMe with Credits. Removal of credits and readme from a project voids the intentions of the author and gives you no right to do what you want with it. It gives you less right because you have no idea who to actually credit or seek approval from.

Not looking for further arguement or flames. Stating my intentions and reasonings. And as the creator or controlling agent of the work is mine to set. My work will soon be available via my websites and other areas if individuals wish to gain access to them. It's my responsibility. Not anyone elses.

As lack of posts show, I have little interest in posting here, and this will likely be the end of my participation here if the topic is let rest.


Thank you.



http://artdroid.com/creationgames
http://artdroid.com/creationgames/clem
http://artdroid.com/theseventhgod

[igmo]

http://artdroid.com/creationgames

thanks for the list clem - i had already excluded morte, but was unaware of the extent of the plugins you are supervising rights to. it is not anyone's intention to infringe on the desires of the authors. the difficulty is simply in determining what those desires are.

i am trying to find the original readmes for the works that have been listed. they should be included, and may contain contact information. in the post-mill era, the readme's are hard to find.

there will be an accompaning html interface that shows some data on the files, a screen capture, and (when available) the original readme.

would a link to the root or your creation game site be acceptable within this mapPack?

[igmo]

oh, and i assume you simply forgot to list acts of piety... or do we get to include that one for some arcane reason? your site shows omac as the author.

for those keeping score, clem's list and our list overlap with 4 maps: morte, acts, barbarian valley, and hvergelmir.

[igmo]

in digging around for old readme's, vista included a stern "do not redistribute" document... we should probably exclude tallow abby on that basis, unless someone has some way to get in contact with anyone that was in vista-cartel. its a very pretty map, though i cannot recall ever playing it.

[Orlando the Axe]

fisj posted his email about a week ago, let me go dig it up.

[Orlando the Axe]

should have seen this one coming: fisj@hotmail.com

Thanks for the great work. Its really good to see people are still interested in Myth ... I havn't been on these forums in aaages.

Of course you have permission. FYI, I can be contacted at [email]fisj@hotmail.com.[/email]

-fisj

I think someone has some sort of contact with iggy popped, but I can't recall at the moment.



Edited By Orlando the Axe on 1109130800

[William Wallet]

Hey guys, I spent a while making this brand new Universal Myth plugin. To name SOME of the maps included:
A Separation of Ages
Barbarian Valley
Barbarian Valley Tourney
CoD - The Ire
CoD - Source of 500 Poisons
Gambler's Heart
Legend of Gor Ash (anything to do with this)
Morte Della Luna
Peace on the Ramparts
River of Life
River of Gold
Shattered Earth
The Seventh God (Or any update or variation on this work.)
WW2 - No Surrender
WW2 - LAH2W Lead a Hoor To Water
WW2 - To A Violent End
Hvergelmir
Homeland
Homeland II
CoD LevelPack 1
Blacken My Eye

[igmo]

should have seen this one coming: fisj@hotmail.com

Thanks for the great work. Its really good to see people are still interested in Myth ... I havn't been on these forums in aaages.

Of course you have permission. FYI, I can be contacted at [email=fisj@hotmail.com.]fisj@hotmail.com.[/email]

-fisj

I think someone has some sort of contact with iggy popped, but I can't recall at the moment.

this is about tallow abby then?

[ChrisP]

So clem, upon departing for new hobbies, some people gave you their plugins and made you guardian and sentinel against unholy and heinous acts lest two friends transfer maps so that they can play on a LAN and darkness prevails. In writing. I’m sorry, but until I find out there was also a solemn ceremony involving tunics, trumpets and the tapping of shoulders with a sword, I have a little trouble taking the sanctity of your stewardship seriously.

If I was involved in this compilation and I wanted to include those maps, I would contact and ask the actual authors myself. I guess my faith in humanity makes me believe other people will react with the same grace and appreciation as fisj, writs and deeds of sequestering aside.

However, don’t think too badly of me for ribbing you. In truth, I share your concerns. Perhaps Igmo can list which readmes are missing, if any, and to prove your convictions and intents are genuine, you can tap into the Mill’s archives and help provide them.

Igmo, for the record: on the list, I was the primary author of the ‘Magma TFL Multipack’. I would, of course, be glad to have you get it on a greater number of hard drives in any manner you see fit, provided it doesn’t involve charging for it in any way. I would appreciate the readme being included so that the other contributors, such as Deadman and Orlando the Axe, will have their names recorded for posterity. In case Clem again sounds an alarm over how porting TFL maps to Myth II is illegal, you should know Iron Duke received permission for our TFL ports.

Ironically, I do want to mention a couple of matters of presentation. First is that the TFL Mulitpack is already a huge compilation that is readily available. To make your download size more attractive, you may want to exclude it and instead provide a note or link to it somewhere - but that’s up to you. Also, I realize that the original Creep on the Borderlands port has become the de facto Myth II version, but if you still want to include the Multipack, then to the extent it matters at all, mine is more true to the original TFL map as far as scenery and such is concerned. Otherwise they are redundant.

One day I’ll have to tell the story of how barely a month after I laboriously placed thousands of trees, bushes, weeds and stones, looking from one monitor to the other to try to ensure accuracy, Iron Duke devised a program to do it all automatically… and how I’ve not let him win a single game of Blue & Grey ever since.

[iron]

hehe ... haven't we played just a single game since?

If you want to use anything of mine please go ahead, and as ChrisP said please include the readme (I noticed you had Dol Baran and 5 Legends there - but not Shadow III?)

I'd also advise against including the Fallen Levels in the zip, as its just too huge.

[clem]

However, don’t think too badly of me for ribbing you. In truth, I share your concerns.

For sharing my concerns you sure spew alot of bullshit. You say people should honor the wishes of the people who worked on projects, then you second guess and question those intentions.

For your information The Mill archive is very accessible and HAS been tapped for people who request things at my discression.


Glad I can be such an extreme irritant to you KrisP just by staying around as a reminder of Myth's past and what it used to be, as opposed to what it has become thanks to your divine guidance.


Keep up the stellar work.

Enjoy.

[Blades ~FF~]

When the mill goes back online (which hopefully will be sooner rather than later depending on the volumes of programming I have backing up at the moment), people will be able to download all of these things anyway.

I guess my whole deal is (and I've said this with regard to people within my own organizarion who wish to put together archives of plugins) why would you make someone download a ton of things they won't play or don't want to play just to get the one or two things they want? If I wanted to download a map, wouldn't you be doing a better service by providing a place to download the single plugin and readme, rather than putting it in a 200 meg zip archive that I'd have to download just to get the 10 megs of map that I want? It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me... but again, I've been pretty anti-map pack for a while... so it may just be my bias.

[Orlando the Axe]

That makes sense blades, but with the high speeds of internet available today, most of the time is spent trying to hunt down the maps as opposed to downloading them for a lot of people. This idea isn't really a mappack so much as an archive, an option for the high bandwidth people to download the most played plugins all at once. Kinda like how M2: Worlds came with a bunch of maps on it. All those maps are free and available somewhere else but it's convenient to have them all in the same place.



Edited By Orlando the Axe on 1109194851

[ChrisP]

Blades, I don’t think the idea is to “make” anyone to download a huge file. It’s not being designed for the people who are looking for one or two specific maps, but rather as a suggested “must have map list” for those people who never download any map unless they know everyone else will have it too.

Happens all the time: everybody but one person has the map(s) the host wants to switch to, everyone gets annoyed but no one wants boot or lose a player, the player without the map(s) considers picking, finding and downloading tons of different plugins too daunting a task (again, unless they know for sure everyone else will also have the same plugins), and so the map(s) never get played.

So having just one easy download for a “must have list” is for the slackers, while a more comprehensive source for individual plugins is still the more valuable resource. The two will only compliment each other, and not that you should only have one or the other. Of course, this all depends on the success of the promotion of this compilation, which I think may require a huge uphill battle.

Clem, relax! But if you’re going to get all excited anyway, I was at least hoping for some “Have at Thee Foul Knave!” ripostes, but instead, mostly all I got was “KrisP” and “spews a lot of bullshit”. By the way, it’s not so much that you’re “an extreme irritant”, but that you want to think you are. I know you don’t see it, but it’s your uptight self-importance, self-righteous pomp, and as often as not, hypocrisy, that makes you so deserving of and ripe for mockery.

So, sorry, but it’s too funny to take seriously and have it be an extreme irritant, because inevitably, you always unwittingly go along with the joke. Look at what you’re saying: you’re the icon of Myth’s glorious past and I’ve somehow been responsible for… better yet – guiding Myth into some sort of decay and moral corruption. Dude, I’d battle you for the fate of the Myth galaxy, but the batteries in my lightsabre have been dead since I was twelve.

[igmo]

When the mill goes back online (which hopefully will be sooner rather than later depending on the volumes of programming I have backing up at the moment), people will be able to download all of these things anyway.

I guess my whole deal is (and I've said this with regard to people within my own organizarion who wish to put together archives of plugins) why would you make someone download a ton of things they won't play or don't want to play just to get the one or two things they want? If I wanted to download a map, wouldn't you be doing a better service by providing a place to download the single plugin and readme, rather than putting it in a 200 meg zip archive that I'd have to download just to get the 10 megs of map that I want? It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me... but again, I've been pretty anti-map pack for a while... so it may just be my bias.

i am largely in agreement with you.... which is why i made that pmnet puremap link page. although for many long-time players, there will be redundancy there is still an advantage to a multipack. you can be in a game and ask: "does everyone have the multipack maps loaded?" then know you have lots of options, and be certain the versions will match. most ppl are unsure of what they have, and assume no one else has it anyway... thus 3rd party maps are rarely volunteered. since the release of the tfl multipack, however, those games are played (even though a number of the meshes are retarded.) it all has to do with being able to ask "do you have the tfl pack?"

and, um, yeah... we'd all love the mill back.

as to other posts...

clem, i'd appreciate some of that access to mill information, if its available.

i am unable to find readme's for any of malkavians maps (krackatoa, eyrie, rank and defiled and tamaerlin... its possible those were distributed without docs.) i am also missing docs for
-ashes to ashes (need better author too, only have "COM")
-rain on the borogrove
-cryptic wightings
-gothic
-myopia
-Fosgarach Ruillick (need author name)
-mjilaphobia



finaly, i can see you are irritated by chrisP's message. the nutshell of what he was asking was how can we really know what maps u are in charge of... i'll point out something for anyone irked by clem's exclusion list: for the maps we wished to include and clem nixed (morte, barb valley, and hverg) clem was the primary content creator. there is no one else to ask. the remainder of the maps on clem's list are irrelevant to this discussion.

i've mailed omac directly on use of acts of piety (i copied you to a bellsouth addy i found on your site). you did not specifically exclude it, but i want to be sure.

chrisP the tfl pack (fun as it is) is not going to be included -- never was part of the scope of what this is after.



Edited By igmo on 1109200869