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vinylrake wrote:

The Elfoid wrote:Myth III is the reason Take2 never financed Myth IV.

on what do you base this statement?

It would be much fairer to say that "Take2 is the reason Myth III Sucked".

I believe that is so. But if Myth III had been the big hit that T2 expcted, selling purely for the fairly well known brand used, Myth IV woulda happened.

The Elfoid wrote:

vinylrake wrote:

The Elfoid wrote:Myth III is the reason Take2 never financed Myth IV.

on what do you base this statement?

It would be much fairer to say that "Take2 is the reason Myth III Sucked".

I believe that is so. But if Myth III had been the big hit that T2 expcted, selling purely for the fairly well known brand used, Myth IV woulda happened.

Yes but then you loop back around to WHY Myth III wasn't the big hit that T2 _wanted_ - because it SUCKED - which is Take2's fault.

So to recap:

Myth IV never got created because Myth III wasn't a big hit
Myth III wasn't a big hit because it sucked
Myth III sucked because it wasn't a finished product
Myth III wasn't finished because Take2 fired all the developers and released the game before the project was done

vinylrake wrote:

The Elfoid wrote:

vinylrake wrote:

The Elfoid wrote:Myth III is the reason Take2 never financed Myth IV.

on what do you base this statement?

It would be much fairer to say that "Take2 is the reason Myth III Sucked".

I believe that is so. But if Myth III had been the big hit that T2 expcted, selling purely for the fairly well known brand used, Myth IV woulda happened.

Yes but then you loop back around to WHY Myth III wasn't the big hit that T2 _wanted_ - because it SUCKED - which is Take2's fault.

So to recap:

Myth IV never got created because Myth III wasn't a big hit
Myth III wasn't a big hit because it sucked
Myth III sucked because it wasn't a finished product
Myth III wasn't finished because Take2 fired all the developers and released the game before the project was done

You think a game being good or not is the reason it sells?

There's all kinds of other factors. How big the brand is. How well it's marketed. Who the target audience are. What kind of deals they strike - bundles etc..

For years EA Games made nothing good, and anything with a Disney label on it was horrendous. They still sold like hot cakes. Obviously Myth was never quite in that league, but still. Things like the Mac/PC release not being simultaneous, the promised beta testing positions for anyone on the top 3 placing teams in MWC01 because they sponsored the tournament (a stupid idea anyway, if you think about it), the poor and weak marketing, a number of factors.

Elf. You are putting words in my mouth. Look back at what I wrote. Nowhere in that post do you see me saying that "Myth III didn't sell well". or that the only meaningful reason a game sells well is the game's quality.

That might be what YOU meant when you said Myth III "wasn't a big hit", but that isn't what I said. The initial bugs in the windows version and the negative buzz from the first wave of buyers once they started playing it discouraged other people from buying it. The general consensus was that it wasn't anywhere near as good as Myth TFL or Myth SB (i.e. it sucked) - and THAT is I would say the primary reason Myth III wasn't a big hit. In other words, being good doesn't guarantee the success of a game in terms of sales or money made, but when the common perception of a game is that it 'sucks', whether the perception is fair or not, that's generally a pretty good indicator that a game isn't going to be wildly successful sales/$-wise.

With all this being said, has anyone tried porting m3 solo/multi into an m2 plugin like magma did with m1 or is it not possible?

neo123 wrote:With all this being said, has anyone tried porting m3 solo/multi into an m2 plugin like magma did with m1 or is it not possible?

It is sort of possible. It would be even more work than porting TFL solo into M2. TFL and M2 used collections of images for the units. M3 uses actual 3D models, so you would have to make a collection out of that to begin with. Some people already have converted some of the M3 units. Some M3 features are not compatible with M2. Certain attacks and stuff. I can't imagine someone doing all that work for a game most people don't really like that much.

...looks at Gizmo

You'd be surprised what you'd find in some local folders floating around out there.....

dont look at me, yes its sitting in 1 of those magic locals, lots of it is playable, but non of it is ready for release... basically whats holding it back is the porting of units which takes forever and is a really boring job, but its getting done, 1 sprite at a time when im not busy doing other things...

I'm not going to promise anything, but the first 5 solo maps and 2 multis should be finished around the time 1.7 goes public (unless thats tomorrow)

...Giz

I like the idea of a M3 Multipack.

MJ also put out a couple of post-release maps in plugins like Bungie did:
http://hl.udogs.net/files/Gaming/%20Myt ... bo%20Maps/

GizmoHB wrote:dont look at me, yes its sitting in 1 of those magic locals, lots of it is playable, but non of it is ready for release... basically whats holding it back is the porting of units which takes forever and is a really boring job, but its getting done, 1 sprite at a time when im not busy doing other things...

I'm not going to promise anything, but the first 5 solo maps and 2 multis should be finished around the time 1.7 goes public (unless thats tomorrow)

...Giz

Is it an attempt at a direct port or has gameplay been tinkered with to suit Myth II at all?

Dont take this the wrong way VR...you claim to be into programming and game industry stuff, but you ALLWAYS miss out on the FACT that the myth III project WAS DONE!
Yes thats right...its called DEADLINES. mumbo jumbo said they would make their myth 3 design dock in an 11 month development cycle, so the game would be ready to ship for the holliday season. (last i heard this was 80-90% of the total video games sales for the year.

myth 3 HAD to be released because that was the DEADLINE.
Now dont get me wrong, i was GOOD buddies with fisj and Vodi since tfl days and i used to play with them all the time for years, even after m3 came out. It was a Real and rare treat to be able to play through some of the nicer levels in an all new myth game with the people who created that very same level. crypt of MAzzarin = fisj!!!

To blame only take2 for being "Dicks" is very close minded to what a publishing company needs.

Sure take2 didnt support it as much as they could have, but there are budgets in evreything, and managers are allways cheap ass bastards that put you in a position to "Make due" with less then you need to get the job done to their satisfaction.

you can only judge games (as per meny sementics arguements i have read on the subject in MANY games review mags over the years have said):
"We can only judge a product on what the people will buy off the store shelves." "Patches and fixes after release and also are not taken into account beacuse the reviews are done with the shipped version to meet the magazine publisher's own deadline for content."

think of what mumbo jumbo DID have, a team of vet myth developers that LOVED the game from the community and some professional programmers/artists and modelers/animators and 11 months of development time.

Thats all i would ask/expect for or hope for if i got to make another myth game.

Take2 was mean sure, but maybe they knew they were gonna get stuck with a turkey of a bugged game. I know i wouldnt do anybody any favours if they were gonna turn in lackluster buggy unfinnished results
in an investment that was in the millions.

Would i have faith that if i missed the hugely important deadline of the december sales season and put the game through another YEAR of exspense and development, that in the end the results would be worth the risk? I dont belive i would, just like take2 didnt.

MANY games have sat in limbo for years of development only to be no better then they were at the end of year 1, or never get released even after years of work. so take2 cut their losses and released the game just as they said they would 11 months before. too bad mumbo jumbo didnt live up to their end of the bargin and be ready as well at the DEADLINE.

Now i worked with the mumbo jumbo guys, played with them and helped with playest and consulting into unit melee behaviour when they were working on the patches, also "MythDev"

So i love those guys, the management of mumbo jumbo is more to blame then anyone = Andrew Meggs.

Maybe if the team spent more time being directed to make things work like Warriors with shields that have a WORKING BLOCK vs thrall!
And less time on stupid shit like making trees that bend from exsplosions but dont EVEN block arrows! Or the super retarded poorly written and cheesy FAR TOO LONG animated cutscenes (BTW with no lip syncing!)
And MORE time on fixing stuff that affected gameplay and tried to keep evreything as mythy as they could.......

I have worked with many artists over the years on different projects, and if i was the lead and i was shown the models/animations that were being
created for myth project (the myth 3 models) i would have said "Umm no have you even seen what the myrkidia look like in myth 2 or in concept art???!?!?" and i would of had them redo/fix a lot of the units to not look/act retarded and UNmythy.

Thats what i do now, you cant just accept ANYTHING somebody contributes to the team art wise. If its sub par work it needs to be done again and better, or more to the vision of the person crafting the story.

the artist are tools used to help craft a single vision, and if those things dont meet the standard of what the vision requires they need to not be included or redone.

Now i do realize this logic would also put me at risk for missing the deadline like mumbo jumbo did, but i wouldnt want to create an "Allen Smithee" version of a video game.

BTW myth 3 sold as manny copies as TFL and SB. (around 250,000 copies)

So it wasnt a failure from a sales standpoint, more like a public realations nightmare for an incomplete product. See what i mean? take2 could have givin the developers another 2 months, (HOPEFULLY "FIXED" it)
released a BETTER myth 3 GAME but since they missed the holliday season, sold FAR LESS THEN 250,000 COPIES EVEN THOUGH IT WAS A SUPERIOR PRODUCT! in anything professional DEADLINES ARE FINAL and MUST be met!

O maybe take2 and mumbo jumbo could have been as skilled as myth 2's Bungie team and done the best video game release ever!!!!! A video game that on shipping ERASES ENTIRE HARD DRIVES IF UNINSTALLED!!! YAY!

then cost the INDEPENDANT company soo much money it helps drag them under bigtime, go bunkrupt and get bailed out (bought) by microsoft! yay Bungie!

-Renwood

I feel like a lot of agreeing occurred in there...

Out of curiosity, do you have a source about sales figures?

-DA

Renwood TWA wrote:Dont take this the wrong way VR...you claim to be into programming and game industry stuff, but you ALLWAYS miss out on the FACT that the myth III project WAS DONE!

1. 'Claim' to be into programming? Screw you Ren, my little finger has more programming knowledge than you will know in your entire lifetime. Every time you open your mouth about anything programming related or what is "possible" to do in Myth you drive that point home with a vengeance.

2. YOU are going to lecture me on game industry 'stuff'? On what basis, that you've read more game industry mags then I have? Or that you claim to be the lead on a project (i.e. you have attached yourself to a project involving people with actual Myth creative talent) that is supposed to be so groundbreaking it should be called "Myth 4" which has been under development for YEARS that has nothing to show but a plugin 'unitset' that contains nothing more than normal Bungie units with some new particle/projectile attacks/effects? I am impressed. Lecture away please oh guru of game development.

3. My knowledge of the Myth 3 development comes from accounts of the actual developers of Myth III, both public and private. You obviously have a different take on where the blame should be placed. I say it's on the evil overlords who didn't adequately fund the project or give the developers the resources they needed to adequately test the game, you think it's the developers fault for missing an arbitrary "deadline" created by suits who had no idea (like you) of the amount of work involved. Why am I not suprised? Funny though, for someone who's heading up a project team that has yet to produce anything significant after YEARS of development I would think you might understand the developers position more. But oh that's right, you AREN'T a game developer, you just pretend to be one on the internet.

4. If you are going to capitalize words for dramatic emphasis at least spell the words right, when you don't it makes you look stupid. (it's 'ALWAYS', not 'ALLWAYS')

5. Please stop replying to anything I write on the forums. I try to be civil to you and give you the benefit of a doubt but you spout crap as if it's solid gold truth and whine and insult people when they call you on your bullshit, and it's really annoying, so please just don't reply to things I write, and I'll try to extend the same courtesy to you. That way we can keep the forums civil.

Oh and by the way Ren, please don't take any of this "the wrong way".

ps. You are NOT going to get to develop another Myth game Ren. No matter what plugin/total conversion/campaign you make it's NOT going to be Myth IV. When you PERSONALLY create something that tops Jinn or 7th God or WWII then you can talk about making another Myth game, until then you are just being absurd.

WOW VR way to show your a total pussy bitch ass cunt faced 12 year old CS player.

Next time i see you in marius ill be sure to give you a bunch of shit for being one of the WORST myth players i have ever seen, AND being a total fuckwit.

I wasnt being mean or rude to you in any way...and this is your response. Nice VR... Real Nice