tain.totalcodex.net

What platforms are you targeting?

Multi-platform. It is written in Standard C++. The graphics is done in OGRE 3D, which is compatible out-of-the-box with Win32/64, OSX and Linux, and with forthcoming ports also with some consoles. I started out using Irrlicht, but it was too limited in low-level facilities and ported the graphics layer to OGRE. Physics will probably be done using Newton, though there are other alternatives too to consider. Havok has too restrictive a licence, however, there isn't exactly a shortage of options with open licences. Sound will most likely use OpenAL.

Unlike Myth there will be no support for 3Dfx

Is it going to be multiplayer?

Yes, by disassociating the presentation from the game as client and server the architecture is intended to support true multiplayer (as in more than 1v1) and spectators.

Now, I want to stress that this is work in progress, and as you all know, with only a few programmers development times will be long. I don't want to build up expectations that will lead to frustration. Still, thank you very much for your interest!

How do you plan using a 3D-geometry based physics engine with sprites?

Also, I will be glad to help out with the file format compatibility... but at this point I think that adding support for Myth file formats shouldn't be your priority (they're complicated formats... and you would get better bang for your buck concentrating on other things this early in development, in my opinion).

Mikademus wrote:Yes, by disassociating the presentation from the game as client and server the architecture is intended to support true multiplayer (as in more than 1v1) and spectators.

I don't understand what you're trying to say with disassociated presentations.

I think it would be best if the game used Mariusnet for multiplayer like Myth and Aleph One (Marathon) do.

The original Bungie metaserver code release was very flakey, but you can download the updated code from here:
http://tain.totalcodex.net/items/show/u ... ource-code

Mariusnet's server application was coded from scratch in Delphi and works on Windows. It is closed source, but works better than the Bungie-based server does:
http://www.mariusnet.com/mnet_v301.exe

You could use both server applications for private network development.

Now, I want to stress that this is work in progress, and as you all know, with only a few programmers development times will be long. I don't want to build up expectations that will lead to frustration. Still, thank you very much for your interest!

My suggestion is to make your first objective to get something basic up and running that can work on multiplayer. The minutae is time consuming, and something that's up and running will be far more interesting to others than wads of code.

There has been talk of a Myth clone for a long time but this is the first time I'm aware of that someone has started coding one.

I'd hesitate to call this a 'myth clone'. they are looking for a way of using myth maps and (I assume) myth units in their generic game engine, but things like physics would be a difficult thing to make game-specific in the example given of myth units doing battle with units from another game world.

Also, from the description it sounds more like this game engine is based on groups of units, not individual units. I could be mistaken and things are not cast in stone since the development is so new.

btw, none of this is meant to be critical of the project. I think it would be great to have an open source/free semi-myth compatible game available.

Oh, a bunch of posts to reply to! I am at UCT+1 (Stockholm, Sweden) so I am a bit out of synch with your posts.

First, though not exactly the asked question, handling sprite- and 3D units in the same engine is relatively trivial. Sprite-based and 3D model units are subclasses of a generic unit class. In the OGRE scene graph sprites are billboard nodes and models are mesh entities. Physics is handled by that sprites have bounding volumes just as 3D models would, but where the Y and Z dimensia are estimated rather than defined in vertices.

Eddaweaver, yeah, the "disassociating presentation from game" was perhaps overly vague or academically put, what I tried to say is that even single player games will connect to a server, though one running on the same machine, and since AI players too will be connected to this one even a single player game is technically a multi-player game. This also allows interesting possibilities such as many players at the same time and spectators.

As Myrd suggests, since Dark Omen maps have been almost fully reverse engineered and implemented (map/battle loaders and editors are running and working) the priority at the moment is getting the game structure up and running with Dark Omen data, and Myth data will come second. However, all of us in this project are very keen on supporting Myth maps and units, and accommodate as much of its rules as possible.

Vinyldrake is absolutely correct, this will not be a Myth clone. I hope I'm not breaking any hopes now, but (first noting that I don't know much anything about the current state of Myth affairs) it seems the original game lives well and is supported as it is. The lion's share of the inspiration for the core rules comes from Warhammer Fantasy and Ancient Battles. Naturally, inspiration only, we have not plagiarised their rules, and we will attempt a system allowing enough flexibility that the battle experience of supported games will be evident. Nonetheless, the core unit of interaction is the regiment. There is nothing stopping you from having regiments of one individual, though, and it is planned that formations will be able to assume formations relative to each other. Thus a quite complete Myth-like model should be possible without many special rules.

Myrd, I would very much appreciate any information about Myth formats: file formats, unit stats and game play rules. Since it might be problemativ from a disclosure position, I would absolutely not require access to any original source code unless deemed appropriate or acceptable. Format descriptions would be enough and greatly appreciated!

Naturally, you all may download and peruse the project code when available (a SVN server is coming, all source is to be LGPL:ed) and anyone who would like to be part of this is more than welcome!

I am really happy about your interest. We have been many who have been pining away for a Dark Omen 2, and who were deadly disappointed with Mark of Chaos, and all of us have wonderful memories of Myth as well. The idea of combining these worlds is immensely attractive to us!

So I take it that although you're not making a Myth clone, what you're making could be modified into a Myth clone without a huge amount of work?

By the way, I ought to make you aware of Glest
http://glest.org/en/index.php

Eddaweaver wrote:what you're making could be modified into a Myth clone without a huge amount of work?

For certain values of "without a huge amount of work", yes, I guess.

By the way, I ought to make you aware of Glest
http://glest.org/en/index.php

I checked it out earlier, thinking that there might be things useful. I (we) might still use some of what they've learned but I will not make the mistake of Mark of Chaos: Namco decided to use an existing RTS codebase (Black Hole's Armies of Exigo) on which to build a regimental RTT game. However, real-time tactics is so fundamentally different from real-time strategy that that road is a recipe for disaster. Proper support for formations, unit- and regimental psychology, and tactical order structures must be part of the fundamentals rather than pasted on top of or retrofitted into the project.

As Wesnoth is the FOSS TBS (turn-based strategy) game project and Gleist is the FOSS RTS game one, perhaps WARTBED, with some luck, support and continuing ambition could become the FOSS RTT project.

Sorry for double-posting, but is there a particular reason for the questions about an open-source clone of Myth? I thought the current Myth update situation (is it what is called "Project Magma"?) fulfilled the needs for the community. If there is demand for an FOSS Myth version then I guess that I could make greater accommodations in WARTBED for this purpose.

Yes updating Myth II does fulfill it, but having an open-source clone could help. How? Well updating Myth can only take you so far. Having a new and good Myth clone could mean new gameplay and features. It could also mean new players joining.

To sum up

* Myth has a codebase that dates back about 15 years to "Pathways Into Darkness"
* Myth's codebase is closed source and will remain so
* Projectmagma's resources and jurisdiction to improve Myth 2 are very constrained
* Myth II is a ten year old game
* No further commercial Myth games will ever be released after the Myth III debacle
* There is no other game with Myth's type of gameplay; it is as unique as if DooM had been the only FPS ever made
* There has been a wish for a free Myth clone ever since Myth III was released, but a lack of willing or able programmers.
* There are many creative things that could be done with a new game, whereas with Myth it is basically a developmental dead end.

Hmm, I really had no idea... Well, perhaps we could be of more use to each other than I had originally envisioned then. The current focus of this project is regimental warfare (WARTBED is short for "War And Regimental Tactics Battle Engine (Deluxe)"), but since there is not restriction on regiment size and regiments too can be meta-formated, then Myth gameplay would essentially be recreatable.