and the dead piled to twice the height of a man

[Industry]

I hear Mazz can eat a whole evening.

[Death's Avatar]

I'm a relative Myth Newbie. I just got the game 2 months ago. So I missed out on Mazz 4.

But Mazz 5 is quite possibly the most unique gaming experience I've had in a long time.

Just a suggestion(s)
1) Some more detailed instructions. It is a pain in the ass to learn how to handle some of the characters.
2) New Map.
3) Balance out those custom units. I found the wraith units to be quite cheap at the end of a very long Mazz session.

1. Thats a good 2/5 of the fun

2. Er...it is called "Demise on the Plains"

3. Yeah, balancing is needed. Those wraiths need to be more than just cheap, they need to be doom-bringers

[Cobalt 7]

Ah the distant sounds of a plugin so difficult, I don't even dare attempt it on Timid.

[Eddaweaver]

Ah the distant sounds of a plugin so difficult, I don't even dare attempt it on Timid.

As someone who played the original Mazzarin's Demise on Myth TFL back in the day, I can say that what you just said resonates with my experience in an even more profound way than you would've imagined.

[William Wallet]

I retired from playing long co-ops during a game of Dream of Death. Nobody told me that taunting at the start (something I do *every* game, mind you) would teleport my units into oblivion.

Yeah... I dunno. The love of long games went out of it for me, that day

[Baron LeDant]

I'm pretty wary of how far a new mazz installment would go in regards to new units. I mean the new light units were fun additions I thought, but I certainly didn't like all these sea monsters and stuff.

Of course I'm not the one making it, or having any input on it but if I was to magically learn how to use fear/loathing and a bunch of other tools (is that one of Mazz's spells?), I would probably do some of the following.

1. Remove any giant unit on your team. I don't like this addition for a couple reasons. One is that some people will just call the unit every game and act like a child when they don't get it. Thr other reason is how reliant a team can get on 'power units' to save their units.

In my mind, only the Watcher should require you to drop everything to deal with a 'big baddy'. Zerks were given the nice ability to hit very hard, but thats pretty much useless against the boss type units in Mazz 5.
If a Dragon rushes me and one of the 3 powerful melee units is off unable to help, I'm basically down a unit at least, more if my units are hurt.

I would like to see ordinary myrks added, it would make vetting herons earlier more of a priority, instead of just getting 150 kills on your mort in 15 mins.

I think basically what I want is to simplify or possibly 'dumb-down' Mazz a bit. Maybe lessening the boss monsters and increasing ghols and other such waves might be better. (also dont let ghols drop dispersal dreams!).

Anyways, what OtA said is right, most people will download mazz because its mazz, just don't copy the Mazz 5 version with more sea monsters please!

[Industry]

I retired from playing long co-ops during a game of Dream of Death. Nobody told me that taunting at the start (something I do *every* game, mind you) would teleport my units into oblivion.

Yeah... I dunno. The love of long games went out of it for me, that day

That's just too funny. I wonder if the name of that Map Action was Anti-Wallet.

[iron]

Everything Baron said regarding "sea monsters" resonates with me too. To me they just feel wrong - its not like you're facing an inevitable onslaught at the hands of the marching dead hordes any more. Instead its a succession of powerful cartoon characters that need either one of your hero units or a stack of magical stuff to kill, and all the average joe unit can do is run away.

Having played a bit of Mazz back in the old days, I must say I preferred the feel of the original Mazz and the 1st Myth 2 port. Probably just me though

[Horus]

Everything Baron said regarding "sea monsters" resonates with me too. To me they just feel wrong - its not like you're facing an inevitable onslaught at the hands of the marching dead hordes any more. Instead its a succession of powerful cartoon characters that need either one of your hero units or a stack of magical stuff to kill, and all the average joe unit can do is run away.

Having played a bit of Mazz back in the old days, I must say I preferred the feel of the original Mazz and the 1st Myth 2 port. Probably just me though

Those were my sentiments too...

[Death's Avatar]

Everything Baron said regarding "sea monsters" resonates with me too. To me they just feel wrong - its not like you're facing an inevitable onslaught at the hands of the marching dead hordes any more. Instead its a succession of powerful cartoon characters that need either one of your hero units or a stack of magical stuff to kill, and all the average joe unit can do is run away.

Having played a bit of Mazz back in the old days, I must say I preferred the feel of the original Mazz and the 1st Myth 2 port. Probably just me though

This is obviously a symptom of not playing enough Iron.

-DA

[Baron LeDant]

I think I should quickly add that I was one of relatively few people who didn't groam and whine when wraiths were added to Mazz 4. I liked their addition to the map (for sadistic purposes? who knows), but the Mazz 5 new enemies just didn't fit.

I could possibly see dragons being a little weaker, or alternatively more vulnerable to slaying arrows (could get rid of zerk special maybe).

Hmm if I go on any longer this post will reach mammoth proportions so time to stop.

[Oroboros]

Having played a bit of Mazz back in the old days, I must say I preferred the feel of the original Mazz and the 1st Myth 2 port. Probably just me though

Nah, not just you, Iron. I also preferred the max-6 player version of the game. People chatted more. Strategies could be forged.

But in defense of CP's efforts on Mazz 4 and beyond, I believe he's following the same path as most game developers: create eye-candy and bigger 'wow's. Consider the stick games in video lounges: these days you get an impossible amount of enemy obstacles swarming in impossibly intricate dances, and to fight them, one button press practically burns your shadow into the roof. People like having those image neurons on fire, and the more chaos there is onscreen, the more exciting the experience.

Chaos doesn't just come with fire. It comes with departures from the norm, like new units or new ways to use old units.

But the big thing about the Mazzarin's Demise series, from it's very beginning through to today, it that it's there to challenge the Myth2 engine (or TFL engine for the original). In fact, the tail often wags the dog in Mazz's case, where CP askes the Myth2 Keepers of the Code to create new modifications specifically to make new ideas in Mazz run.

In every sense, CP's holding to what Magma was founded on - Doing something new with old tools.

The sacrifice of technology-driven projects like Mazz are the benefits in more story-driven projects like Scourge of Belial, IMO.

-Oro

[A-Red]

I liked Scourge of Belial better than any of the Mazzes. It was just more fun to play. But it's nice that this is being made for the people that enjoy it.

[William Wallet]

I liked Scourge of Belial because of that nifty looking baddie boss. I was never patient enough to win the level though. Haha.

I like a bit of variety to be honest, I like the fact that Mazz sort of throws common sense to the wind and has units that probably shouldn't be there - I like that kind of thing.
I'd also love to see a plugin that depicted Mazzarin's fall in a more historical way of course, but to be fair it'd be a bit boring. Haha.

[iron]

This is obviously a symptom of not playing enough Iron.

Not really - if I don't like the feel of a plugin after half a dozen attempts its not on the cards that I'll change my mind by forcing myself through another dozen games.

Also Oro, the feel of a plugin has little to do with pushing game limits. Mazz could still feel like old-skool Mazz, and push the engine just as much as it has. Anyway, its up to CP what he does as its his plugin and his vision for what he wants to achieve.

Btw please don't take my comments as saying it'll be no good or anything. It will doubtless appeal to lots of players who are much better than I - all I'm saying is its not my particular cup of tea.



Edited By iron on 1151037267