KILL ALRIC NOW TO STOP THE LEVELLER LATER ON.
DO IT> DO IT QUICK
I call FG
Question about the history of Myth
::Wonders if either VR or Deqlyn realise that it doesn't really matter if Alric is alive when the cycle comes round or not, seeing as most Heroes wouldn't of survived the thousand years between the beginning of their age of light and the next age of dark::Deqlyn wrote:VR is like the socrates of Myth community. He's so right. Sorry Alric... We cant take the chance youll be reincarnated as the leveller... Should have thought about that before you killed Balor
Which brings me to the great point of Legion vs Legion kill alric to be safe map idea.
They specifically say Balor, and seeing as not every incarnation of the Leveller had the name Balor it's reasonable to assume they meant the current TFL form of the Leveller (comeon his head was still talking after they cut it off for crying out loud). This would mean you need a pretty impressive plan to just destroy the Leveller's current host let alone the entity itself.Renwood TWA wrote:What exactly that means i dont know, but to me it seems they are talking about "The Leveler" and not referring to "Balor" being killed before.
We all know the comet is a spaceship and the leveler is just an alien that can possess people. His/her/its ship is on autopilot and returns once every millennium to either pick the leveler up or drop him off.
From my understanding of the dates it was light up until Balor came but he was destroyed before he could entirely ruin the world. At which point his ship came back early and picked him up.
These, without my spaceship theory, seem irreconcilable:
- Everything was good till Balor came
- Balor was destroyed within 100 years
- there was a comet when he died thereby signifying an age of light
- cycle may or may not be broken
Prospective myth 4: Alric dives into the great devoid and spends 1000 years diving after Balor's head. Once he catches it (In an awesome cutscene) and uses a dispersal dream on all the crazy demon things that were thrown down there over the past few thousand years to shoot himself up and out of the devoid.
From my understanding of the dates it was light up until Balor came but he was destroyed before he could entirely ruin the world. At which point his ship came back early and picked him up.
These, without my spaceship theory, seem irreconcilable:
- Everything was good till Balor came
- Balor was destroyed within 100 years
- there was a comet when he died thereby signifying an age of light
- cycle may or may not be broken
Prospective myth 4: Alric dives into the great devoid and spends 1000 years diving after Balor's head. Once he catches it (In an awesome cutscene) and uses a dispersal dream on all the crazy demon things that were thrown down there over the past few thousand years to shoot himself up and out of the devoid.
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Lord Thanos
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Re: Question about the history of Myth
This topic made for a very interesting read. I have always wondered whether or not the cycle had been broken, and the Leveller entity destroyed in the cataclysmic blast that resulted when Balor's head was hurled into the Great Devoid.
Since this question remains intentionally unanswered in the canon storyline, all we can do is theorize and debate. However, there is a source of information that would put this question to rest once and for all. The Total Codex. I am surprised that it was not consulted at the conclusion of the Great War, in order to determine the Leveller's fate (not to mention Soulblighter's as well).
Would whoever is currently in possession of the Codex please enlighten us?
Since this question remains intentionally unanswered in the canon storyline, all we can do is theorize and debate. However, there is a source of information that would put this question to rest once and for all. The Total Codex. I am surprised that it was not consulted at the conclusion of the Great War, in order to determine the Leveller's fate (not to mention Soulblighter's as well).
Would whoever is currently in possession of the Codex please enlighten us?
Thanos A.K.A "Ravanosh"
Re: Question about the history of Myth
It does exist, but its where abouts are unknown. According to a Bungie employee who currently is now at Microsoft the myth bible and halo bibles existed. Where abouts are still unknown.
Re:
Its funny you mention that - it actually coincides with bungie's habit of telling the story from the perspective of a human (humanoid) who does not have all the facts. Case-in-point, the narrator on occasion saying how he cannot reconcile what he has learned with what he knows of history - much like how the vast majority of the subplot/bvackstory in Marathon have to be gleaned from comparing stories that seemingly conflict.They specifically say Balor, and seeing as not every incarnation of the Leveller had the name Balor it's reasonable to assume they meant the current TFL form of the Leveller (comeon his head was still talking after they cut it off for crying out loud). This would mean you need a pretty impressive plan to just destroy the Leveller's current host let alone the entity itself.
Just like the Black Company, bungie leaves the history in the hands of the individual recording it - so while the narrator may write that "balor has been killed before", it may be because his limited position of understanding (as a generic soldier/annalist with no magical knowledge), he is unaware of the connection or validity of an entity called the leveller to the terror Balor. Perhaps whoever he heard it from was referencing balor in the context of being the leveller's host, and saying "he has been killed before" in the sense that the leveller's host has been killed before, not balor specifically. Although that would make for an interesting tale if that were the case - the great war had been going on almost a century by the start of tfl?
Bungie is (and has been proven to) be coy enough with their story elements to obfuscate the true meaning and history of things by things as small and simple as grammatical choice (and intentional misuse/misspelling) and nuances of language and perspective.
Re: Question about the history of Myth
INCORRECT. I spoke with Tuncer Deniz himself about this 'Myth Bible' a week or so ago. Directly from him:Deqlyn wrote:It does exist, but its where abouts are unknown. According to a Bungie employee who currently is now at Microsoft the myth bible and halo bibles existed. Where abouts are still unknown.
GodzFire: Is there, or was there ever a Myth bible?
GodzFire: Like the Halo bible
GodzFire: Like a Myth bible for the devs?
Tuncer: I don't know what the Halo bible is
Tuncer: But I don't remember any kind of Myth bible
Tuncer: There was a very basic Myth design doc
GodzFire: Well here's the quote that started the rumor:
GodzFire: "Golden God has a cousin @ Bungie who gave him the MYTH BIBLE. Or so he says.Apparently it over 1000 pages chronicling whole history of Myth, all seven ages (7?!) and naming all Levellers. Sounds oddly similar to Myth III in many aspects (some historical facts are strait from M3) so I think he mb wrong. He seem an honest guy tho."
Tuncer: Nothing from Bungie while I was there
Tuncer: Maybe someone outside of Bungie made one?
GodzFire: Nah I don't think so. If the lead developer of Myth 2 doesn't remember one then I'm sure there wasn't any
Tuncer: heh
GodzFire: The only other rumor that went along with it was that when the Myth series was given to Take2, besides the actual work materials, they were given a pizza box, which basically contained everything Jason had at the time
Tuncer: Yes, the pizza box did exist
GodzFire: wow lol hilarious
Tuncer: He wrote stuff that had to be done, etc
Tuncer: They gave it to Take 2?
Tuncer: eeewww!
GodzFire: Seriously, that's how the story goes
GodzFire: Here's part: 2. What phases do the games go through when in development--i.e. when writing a story there's the brainstorming phase, the rough draft, etc. Anything similar for games?
GodzFire: "2. For us, a game usually starts with a bunch of us sitting around eating pizza. Once we get the idea of what to do, we read as much as we can about related topics. For Myth, we read lots of classical texts like Thucydides, Polybius, The Song of Roland, Epic of Gilgamesh, Sun Tzu, as well as books by modern authors like Glen Cook, Robert Jordan, and Fred Saberhagen. We draw on our background reading for inspiration when constructing the feature list for the game and the story. "
Tuncer: Whoever wrote that forgot to mention Braveheart, the original inspiration for Myth.
Tuncer: Jason made us all go see the movie
Re: Question about the history of Myth
Remember is different then doesn't exist. What was Tuncer's role in myth?Tuncer: But I don't remember any kind of Myth bible
My source is a friend of a friend who worked at Bungie during that time, they have nothing to gain by lying, my source is not Paris' brother or whoever. Perhaps the design doc is what he is referencing as the "bible".Tuncer: There was a very basic Myth design doc
Re: Question about the history of Myth
According to the official Myth II:Soulblighter credits he was the "Project Leader".Deqlyn wrote:...What was Tuncer's role in myth?
http://mything.org/index.php?a=article- ... 0000002662
Re: Question about the history of Myth
I once again spoke with Tuncer today and this should put any more questions regarding the 'Bible' to rest:
GodzFire: The following are some posts from the old Myth.Bungie.Org forums regarding it, feel free to comment as u see fit:
GodzFire: : I agree that M3 answers too much. But don't pin the blame: on Meggs. He was a programmer--he may have contributed: to the story (I don't know), but the responsibility: for the story was in the hands of the Scott Campbell,: the lead designer. Bungie didn't give him any of their: background story notes--No, actually they gave him all the notes they had. Which didn't amount to a whole lot more than that pizza box lid of legend. It seems Jason, Rob and the gang kept most of the ideas up in their heads as they wrote the Myth story, and didn't have anything quite like a professional design doc or "bible" to hand over.
Tuncer: i agree with that
Tuncer: There was no professional design doc
Tuncer: the design doc that jason made was very simple and just talked mainly about tech and things they wanted to accomplish
GodzFire: That backs up some more stuff I found:
GodzFire: "Bungie has historically had very poor preproduction processes - they never really made "Bibles" like they did for Halo, until Halo. Marathon had some docs kinda similar - see arrival.bungie.org - but Myth for the most part had, quite literally, a pizza box lid with two columns of "do" and "don't" written on them."
Tuncer: there was a simple design doc
GodzFire: "As inaccurate as Scott Campbell (Myth III's writer & lead designer) made his story, I have to at least credit him that his preproduction processes are much better. Lacking any official Bungie Myth Bible to work from, he created one of his own, for the expanded Myth universe which he created from what Bungie put in the games. Unfortunately he overlooked and sometimes outright ignored official Bungie or Bungie-approved sources, using things like GURPS, which is Bungie-certified accurate (after taking the errata we've found and had documented into account), as merely "inspiration" and not gospel truth. So now there is a Myth Bible. It's a very big, very self-consistant, and very detailed Myth Bible - just see the repost someone made recently of an article by Santa's Head, one of the Myth III team, about how anal Scott was about maintaining accuracy with his story designs - but it's not Bungie's Myth Bible and has several major errors in it when compared to original published information in Bungie texts and game
Tuncer: it was about 2 pages long
Tuncer: Anyone who disputes that is wrong
Tuncer: yeah, there was no myth bible
GodzFire: It does seem that Take2 really DID just get the pizza box
Tuncer: A simple design doc followed by the story done in Word by Jason.
GodzFire: (what kind of pizza was it by the way?)
Tuncer: I did most of the first half of the Myth 2 story line and Rob helped me with it
Tuncer: But the entire Myth 2 storyline all came from my head
Tuncer: Giordanos I'm sure
Tuncer: We were big fans
GodzFire: Hee heee
Tuncer: http://www.giordanos.com/
GodzFire: U should have all signed that sucker and framed it
Tuncer: yep
GodzFire: I would have bought that!
GodzFire: as a memorabilia piece
GodzFire: Well here is where the dispute comes in
GodzFire: a guy by the name of Deqlyn
GodzFire: "My source is a friend of a friend who worked at Bungie during that time, they have nothing to gain by lying, my source is not Paris' brother or whoever. Perhaps the design doc is what he is referencing as the "bible"."
Tuncer: oh well
Tuncer: I was Product Manager on Myth I
Tuncer: Project Lead on Myth II
GodzFire: The following are some posts from the old Myth.Bungie.Org forums regarding it, feel free to comment as u see fit:
GodzFire: : I agree that M3 answers too much. But don't pin the blame: on Meggs. He was a programmer--he may have contributed: to the story (I don't know), but the responsibility: for the story was in the hands of the Scott Campbell,: the lead designer. Bungie didn't give him any of their: background story notes--No, actually they gave him all the notes they had. Which didn't amount to a whole lot more than that pizza box lid of legend. It seems Jason, Rob and the gang kept most of the ideas up in their heads as they wrote the Myth story, and didn't have anything quite like a professional design doc or "bible" to hand over.
Tuncer: i agree with that
Tuncer: There was no professional design doc
Tuncer: the design doc that jason made was very simple and just talked mainly about tech and things they wanted to accomplish
GodzFire: That backs up some more stuff I found:
GodzFire: "Bungie has historically had very poor preproduction processes - they never really made "Bibles" like they did for Halo, until Halo. Marathon had some docs kinda similar - see arrival.bungie.org - but Myth for the most part had, quite literally, a pizza box lid with two columns of "do" and "don't" written on them."
Tuncer: there was a simple design doc
GodzFire: "As inaccurate as Scott Campbell (Myth III's writer & lead designer) made his story, I have to at least credit him that his preproduction processes are much better. Lacking any official Bungie Myth Bible to work from, he created one of his own, for the expanded Myth universe which he created from what Bungie put in the games. Unfortunately he overlooked and sometimes outright ignored official Bungie or Bungie-approved sources, using things like GURPS, which is Bungie-certified accurate (after taking the errata we've found and had documented into account), as merely "inspiration" and not gospel truth. So now there is a Myth Bible. It's a very big, very self-consistant, and very detailed Myth Bible - just see the repost someone made recently of an article by Santa's Head, one of the Myth III team, about how anal Scott was about maintaining accuracy with his story designs - but it's not Bungie's Myth Bible and has several major errors in it when compared to original published information in Bungie texts and game
Tuncer: it was about 2 pages long
Tuncer: Anyone who disputes that is wrong
Tuncer: yeah, there was no myth bible
GodzFire: It does seem that Take2 really DID just get the pizza box
Tuncer: A simple design doc followed by the story done in Word by Jason.
GodzFire: (what kind of pizza was it by the way?
)Tuncer: I did most of the first half of the Myth 2 story line and Rob helped me with it
Tuncer: But the entire Myth 2 storyline all came from my head
Tuncer: Giordanos I'm sure
Tuncer: We were big fans
GodzFire: Hee heee
Tuncer: http://www.giordanos.com/
GodzFire: U should have all signed that sucker and framed it
Tuncer: yep
GodzFire: I would have bought that!
GodzFire: as a memorabilia piece
GodzFire: Well here is where the dispute comes in
GodzFire: a guy by the name of Deqlyn
GodzFire: "My source is a friend of a friend who worked at Bungie during that time, they have nothing to gain by lying, my source is not Paris' brother or whoever. Perhaps the design doc is what he is referencing as the "bible"."
Tuncer: oh well
Tuncer: I was Product Manager on Myth I
Tuncer: Project Lead on Myth II
Last edited by GodzFire on Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Question about the history of Myth
I don't really see any need to paste in comments denigrating other mythers.
And while I have no reason to doubt your word, (I am in fact reasonably sure that what you posted is a literal record of your conversation), your post is not exactly *proof* of anything. For all anyone *knows* you could have had the conversation with someone pretending to be Tuncer, or you could have even made up the conversation entirely in your head. I am _not_ questioning your account of the conversation or it's accuracy, or suggesting that anyone else should doubt your account - just pointing out the reality that anyone can type anything they want in a forum text box, a forum post claiming to be a transcript of a conversation with a 3rd party is hardly 'proof' of anything.
For example, on the internet, no one can tell I am a dog.
And while I have no reason to doubt your word, (I am in fact reasonably sure that what you posted is a literal record of your conversation), your post is not exactly *proof* of anything. For all anyone *knows* you could have had the conversation with someone pretending to be Tuncer, or you could have even made up the conversation entirely in your head. I am _not_ questioning your account of the conversation or it's accuracy, or suggesting that anyone else should doubt your account - just pointing out the reality that anyone can type anything they want in a forum text box, a forum post claiming to be a transcript of a conversation with a 3rd party is hardly 'proof' of anything.
For example, on the internet, no one can tell I am a dog.